Hardly anybody does this, but, INTELLECTUAL HONESTY requires it!

by Terry 21 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  Terry

  I once told a religious friend of mine that the difference between Christianity and Science was that Science tries to prove itself wrong.

  He laughed.

  "That's not true."

  Okay. Why did he say that?

  Without falsifiability science cannot test hypothesis or perform experiments and discover or verify.

  Religion relies on a book and interpretions by men about the book.

  The book doesn't really exist except by assertion. (No original uncorrupt autograph texts nobody thought to keep for verification purposes!)

  Science is as close as we can get to best method of epistemology.
• 

  JeffT

  First: YOU WORK AT HALF PRICE BOOKS. I'm jealous. I have 8 or 12 feet of books on the shelf that were purchased at 1/2 price. Mostly history and military stuff I can't afford anywhere else. Great store.

  Second: regarding the chess players. The Japanese lost WWII in large part because most of their tactical plans made the assumption that the enemy would do what the Japanese wanted (or needed) them to do. The Americans in particular, didn't buy into this idea.

  Third thought: I get a little tired of the Science vs religion debate. It's like comparing apples and oranges (actually I read an article this morning in either National Geographic or Smithsonian that said they are alike in a lot of ways). IMNSHO Science and religion exist to explain two different things. Science is about explaining what we see, feel, hear etc in the physical universe. Religion exists to explore concepts about things we can't see. For me, the problem gets created when religious people mistake their concepts for physical reality. 1914 is a good example.
• 

  cyberjesus

  hardly anybody does this, but, INTELLECTUAL HONESTY requires it

  So by this statement hardly anybody is honest intellectually so most of us are dishonest intellectually..Who do you think you are?.... but I agree :-)

  But why are we dishonest? could it be because we never learned, never were taught or even made aware of the importance of intellectual honesty?

  But cognitive research has shown that, in reality, many people find falsification difficult. Until the latest study, scientists were the only group of experts that had been shown to use falsification.

  So if many people find it difficult, if only experts had been shown to use falsification.. why is that? Could it be that as a race are not mentally prepared yet to do so? I use to believe that we were so advanced and sophisticated and still we most people dont know why they believe what they do. If the President of the most Powerful nation in the world and in the history of humankind is not intellectually honest (since I think he does believe in a Magical invisible creature who lives in the space and listens and watches us) then what can we expect of the rest?

  The more I learn the more I see all the animals are my brothers and sisters. ( I am not calling my brothers and sisters animals, the other way around)

  So are we really at fault as a race for being intellectually dishonest? If the cognitive research would show that everyone is able to use FALSIFICATION easily then not using it would make us Dishonest, but if many cant use it that just make is incapable, right?

  I am just saying
• 

  ziddina

  GREAT post, Terry!!!

  Now, if we could just figure out how to break that mental pattern of 'glossing over', or 'denying factual evidence' - PROOF - of the religion's lies...

  [not sure i'm using the correct terminology here....]

  How to break through the self-delusional, "herd" mentality that enables religion - or for that matter, corporations/politics/social predators - to delude people and still thrive... ????
• 

  SacrificialLoon

  I've gotten several of Carl Sagan's books at Half Price. I bought a book on Rome just the other day at the store in McKinney. The one in Plano even has a Byzantine section! It's only one shelf, but still...
• 

  moshe

  Well one thing the mom and pop stores have that Half-Price doesn't is a resident cat. When are you coming to Florida? I needed a car repair manual and discovered that Half-Price books has NO stores in Florida- surprising I think.
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  Balsam

  I've had anlytical discussions about religion a handful of times. People just don't want to look at religion and check it out historically or disect it's origins. I love examining religion and it's backgrounds. People still cling to the idea that their religious writings are divinely guided and inspired. If they were just to stop a moment and really examine why they believe it is inspired maybe a light would go on in their head. I have asked people why they believe the bible or any of the so called holy writing are divinely inspired and they will say oh it's because the books says so. I look at them and ask so why do you believe a book that self proclaims itself to be holy to actually be holy?????? They look at me stumped, such a question has never occured to them.
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  sooner7nc

  Hey Terry, last weekend I took the family to the Botanical Gardens in FTW. Afterwards we went to the new HPB north of Ridgmar Mall. I walked to the middle of the store and screamed "Does Terry work here?...Does Terry work here?" They weren't amused. Actually I'm lying about the screaming. The store is awesome! I'm definitely going back.
• 

  Terry

  But why are we dishonest? could it be because we never learned, never were taught or even made aware of the importance of intellectual honesty?

  We develop habits early in life by various means, but, mostly by observing how our caregivers solve problems and learn things.

  A bad habit thus observed is inveterated into us.

  If our life has been patches of bad times it is a clue to that crappy heuristic at work.

  We can learn later in our development we are doing something wrong.

  But, it has to penetrate to the deepest level we hardly have access to. Our deepest selves are sealed, as it were.

  I'd compare it to the really unhealthy smoker who is told by his doctor that he must stop smoking or die.

  The mind agrees and swears off nicotine.

  But, the deepest emotional need cries out for the only thing that works to ally stress: he reaches for the cigarette.
• 

  Terry

  Science is about explaining what we see, feel, hear etc in the physical universe. Religion exists to explore concepts about things we can't see. For me, the problem gets created when religious people mistake their concepts for physical reality

  I almost agree.

  Science is about explaining reality in real terms.

  Religion is about pretending there is another plane of existence and promising it is better than the real one.

  Unfortunately, by pursuing the unreal one we lose out on the real one.

  Bottom line? We trade what IS for ISN'T and never will be........simply because it sounds better.