'Not defiled by women in fact they are virgins' ??

by Heartofaboy 34 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

Chalam

http://www.gotquestions.org/144000.html

Who are the 144,000?

Question: "Who are the 144,000?"

Answer: The book of Revelation has always presented the interpreter with challenges. The book is steeped in vivid imagery and symbolism which people have interpreted differently depending on their preconceptions of the book as a whole. There are four main interpretive approaches to the book of Revelation: 1) preterist (which sees all or most of the events in Revelation as having already occurred by the end of the 1st century); 2) historicist (which sees Revelation as a survey of church history from apostolic times to the present); 3) idealist (which sees Revelation as a depiction of the struggle between good and evil); 4) futurist (which sees Revelation as prophecy of events to come). Of the four, only the futurist approach interprets Revelation in the same grammatical-historical method as the rest of Scripture. It is also a better fit with Revelation’s own claim to be prophecy ( Revelation 1:3 ; 22:7 , 10 , 18 , 19 ).

So the answer to the question “who are the 144,000?” will depend on which interpretive approach you take to the book of Revelation. With the exception of the futurist approach, all of the other approaches interpret the 144,000 symbolically, as representative of the church and the number 144,000 being symbolic of the totality—i.e., the complete number—of the church. Yet when taken at face value: “Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel” ( Revelation 7:4 ), nothing in the passage leads to interpreting the 144,000 as anything but a literal number of Jews—12,000 taken from every tribe of the “sons of Israel.” The New Testament offers no clear cut text replacing Israel with the church.

These Jews are “sealed,” which means they have the special protection of God from all of the divine judgments and from the Antichrist to perform their mission during the tribulation period (see Revelation 6:17 , in which people will wonder who can stand from the wrath to come). The tribulation period is a future seven-year period of time in which God will enact divine judgment against those who reject Him and will complete His plan of salvation for the nation of Israel. All of this is according to God’s revelation to the prophet Daniel ( Daniel 9:24-27 ). The 144,000 Jews are a sort of “first fruits” ( Revelation 14:4 ) of a redeemed Israel which has been previously prophesied ( Zechariah 12:10 ; Romans 11:25-27 ), and their mission is to evangelize the post-rapture world and proclaim the gospel during the tribulation period. As a result of their ministry, millions—“a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language” ( Revelation 7:9 )—will come to faith in Christ.

Much of the confusion regarding the 144,000 is a result of the false doctrine of the Jehovah's Witnesses. The Jehovah’s Witnesses claim that 144,000 is a limit to the number of people who will reign with Christ in heaven and spend eternity with God. The 144,000 have what the Jehovah’s Witnesses call the heavenly hope. Those who are not among the 144,000 will enjoy what they call the earthly hope—a paradise on earth ruled by Christ and the 144,000. Clearly, we can see that Jehovah’s Witness teaching sets up a caste society in the afterlife with a ruling class (the 144,000) and those who are ruled. The Bible teaches no such “dual class” doctrine. It is true that according to Revelation 20:4 there will be people ruling in the millennium with Christ. These people will be comprised of the church (believers in Jesus Christ), Old Testament saints (believers who died before Christ’s first advent), and tribulation saints (those who accept Christ during the tribulation). Yet the Bible places no numerical limit on this group of people. Furthermore, the millennium is different from the eternal state, which will take place at the completion of the millennial period. At that time, God will dwell with us in the New Jerusalem. He will be our God and we will be His people ( Revelation 21:3 ). The inheritance promised to us in Christ and sealed by the Holy Spirit ( Ephesians 1:13-14 ) will become ours, and we will all be co-heirs with Christ ( Romans 8:17 ).

Recommended Resource: Understanding End Times Prophecy by Paul Benware.

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QuestForThruth

"Not defiled by women"
In the bible women are often represented by "idolatry" "prostituate"
-In Ezekiel when Yah talk about Israel the prostituate.
(Yechezqe'l 16 RNV) Again the word of Yahuwah came to me saying,
{2} "Son of man, cause Yeruwshalaim to know her abominations
{3} and say, 'Thus says the Sovereign Yahuwah to Yeruwshalaim, "Your birth and your nativity are from the land of Kena'an. Your father was an 'Emoriy and your mother a Chittiy.
{4} As for your nativity, on the day you were born your navel cord was not cut nor were you washed in water to cleanse you. You were not rubbed with salt nor wrapped in swaddling cloths.
{5} No eye pitied you to do any of these things for you, to have compassion on you but you were thrown out into the open field, when you yourself were loathed on the day you were born.
{6} And when I passed by you and saw you struggling in your own blood, I said to you in your blood, 'Live!' Yes, I said to you in your blood, 'Live!'
{7} I made you thrive like a plant in the field and you grew, matured, and became very beautiful. Your breasts were formed, your hair grew, but you were naked and bare.
{8} When I passed by you again and looked upon you, indeed your time was the time of love so I spread My wing over you and covered your nakedness. Yes, I swore an oath to you and entered into a covenant with you and you became Mine," says the Sovereign Yahuwah.
{9} Then I washed you in water. Yes, I thoroughly washed off your blood and I anointed you with oil.
{10} I clothed you in embroidered cloth and gave you sandals of antelope skin. I clothed you with fine linen and covered you with silk.
{11} I adorned you with ornaments, put bracelets on your wrists, and a chain on your neck,
{12} and I put a jewel in your nose, rings in your ears, and a beautiful crown on your head.
{13} Thus you were adorned with gold and silver and your clothing was of fine linen, silk, and embroidered cloth. You ate pastry of fine flour, honey, and oil. You were exceedingly beautiful and succeeded to royalty.
{14} Your fame went out among the heathen because of your beauty for it was perfect through My splendor that I had bestowed on you," says the Sovereign Yahuwah.
{15} "But you trusted in your own beauty, played the harlot because of your fame, and poured out your harlotry on everyone passing by who would have it.
{16} You took some of your garments and adorned multicolored high places for yourself and played the harlot on them. Such things should not happen nor be.
{17} You have also taken your beautiful jewelry from My gold and My silver that I had given you and made for yourself male images and played the harlot with them.
{18} You took your embroidered garments and covered them and you set My oil and My incense before them.
{19} Also My food that I gave you, the pastry of fine flour, oil, and honey that I fed you, you set it before them as sweet incense and so it was," says the Sovereign Yahuwah.
{20} "Moreover you took your sons and your daughters, whom you bore to Me, and these you sacrificed to them to be devoured. Were your acts of harlotry a small matter
{21} that you have slain My sons and offered them up to them by causing them to pass through the fire?
{22} And in all your abominations and acts of harlotry you did not remember the days of your youth, when you were naked and bare, struggling in your blood.
{23} Then it was so, after all your wickedness, 'Woe, woe to you!'" says the Sovereign Yahuwah,
{24} "that you also built for yourself a shrine and made a high place for yourself in every street.
{25} You built your high places at the head of every road and made your beauty to be abhorred. You offered yourself to everyone who passed by and multiplied your acts of harlotry.
{26} You also committed harlotry with the Mitsriy, your very fleshly neighbors, and increased your acts of harlotry to provoke Me to anger.
{27} Behold! Therefore I stretched out My hand against you, diminished your allotment, and gave you up to the will of those who hate you, the daughters of the Pelishtiym, who were ashamed of your lewd behavior.
{28} You also played the harlot with the sons of ‘Ashshuwr because you were insatiable. Indeed you played the harlot with them and still were not satisfied.
{29} Moreover you multiplied your acts of harlotry as far as the land of the trader, Kasdiy, and even then you were not satisfied.
{30} How degenerate is your heart!” says the Sovereign Yahuwah, “seeing you do all these things, the deeds of a brazen harlot.
{31} You erected your shrine at the head of every road and built your high place in every street. Yet you were not like a harlot because you scorned payment.
{32} You are an adulterous wife who takes strangers instead of her husband.
{33} Men make payment to all harlots but you made your payments to all your lovers and hired them to come to you from all around for your harlotry.
{34} You are the opposite of other women in your harlotry because no one solicited you to be a harlot in that you gave payment but no payment was given you, therefore you are the opposite.
{35} Now then, O harlot, hear the word of Yahuwah!"
{36} Thus says the Sovereign Yahuwah, “Because your filthiness was poured out and your nakedness uncovered in your harlotry with your lovers, and with all your abominable idols, and because of the blood of your sons that you gave to them,
{37} surely therefore, I will gather all your lovers with whom you took pleasure, all those you loved, and all those you hated. I will gather them from all around against you and will uncover your nakedness to them that they may see all your nakedness
{38} and I will judge you as women who break wedlock or shed blood are judged. I will bring blood upon you in fury and jealousy.
{39} I will also give you into their hand and they shall throw down your shrines and break down your high places. They shall also strip you of your clothes, take your beautiful jewelry, and leave you naked and bare.
- (Howshea' 1 RNV) The word of Yahuwah that came to Howshea' the son of Be'eriy in the days of 'UzziYahuw, Yowtham, 'Achaz, and ChizqiYahuw, kings of Yahudah, and in the days of Yarob'am the son of Yow'ash, king of Yisra'el.
{2} Yahuwah began to speak by Howshea'. Yahuwah said to Howshea', "Go! Take yourself a wife of harlotry and sons of harlotry, for the land has been untrue toward Yahuwah."
(2 Korinthios 11 RNV) Oh, that you would bear with me in a little folly, and indeed you do bear with me.
{2} For I am jealous for you with a jealousy in accordance to the will of Yahuwah. For I have betrothed you to one husband that I may present you as a chaste virgin to the Anointed.
{3} But I fear lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Chawwah by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in the Anointed.
{4} For if he who comes preaches another Yahushua whom we have not preached, or you receive a different spirit that you have not received, or a different gospel that you have not accepted, you may well put up with it!
In revelation before the "Not defiled by women" its talk about the false prophet and the mark of the beast.That "mark of idolatry" will came from a women!
But who is that women(s)?Israel?Babylon and the False Religions like the watchtower say...?
1john 5
16 If anyone sees his brother commit a sin that does not lead to death, he should pray and God will give him life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that he should pray about that. 17 All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death.
18 We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the one who was born of God keeps him safe, and the evil one cannot harm him. 19 We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one. 20 We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true—even in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.
21 Dear children, keep yourselves from idols.
4} These are the ones who were not defiled with women, for they are virgins. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These were redeemed from men as firstfruits to Yahuwah and to the Lamb.
{5} And in their mouth was found no deceit for they are without fault before the throne of Yahuwah.
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4 It is these who have not defiled themselves with women, for ( K ) they are virgins. It is these ( L ) who follow the Lamb wherever he goes. These have been redeemed from mankind as ( M ) firstfruits for God and the Lamb, 5 and ( N ) in their mouth no lie was found, for they are ( O ) blameless.
All that to simply say a virgin man who "HAS NEVER" lied or have say "THE" lie? (bible trad war)
Jerusalem French bible say "The lie was not found"
Personally I don`t think that REV talk about the gentle sex
not a captive

It means that these do not get deflowered by a religion at the same time as they give themselves to Jesus the bridegroom.
There is nothing the "Faithful Slave" can say on this scripture because they "deflower" anyone who shows up for the Lamb's wedding. They tell all the 144,000 who are not of thethe Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses that following them is following the Lamb. Make no mistake about it :They require submission to their authority and all teachings evenif anointed brothers or sisters have a conscience that tells them otherwise. It doesn't matter if you think this is the one true religious organization, if it mediates the love you have for the Bridegroom and then it has climbed into bed with you.
So to speak.
When the Bible speaks of women in relation to spiritual things it relates it to religion. Whether a good religion or a bad religion--none can come between you and the Lamb.
tec

Unless people believe that Peter and many of the other apostles were not part of these 'anointed', then the virgin thing must be symbolic.
1 Corinthians 9:5 - Paul is writing here: "Don't we have the right to take a believing wife along with us, as do the other apostles and the Lord's brothers and Cephas?"
Also, I don't know about other translations, but in the NIV, the Revelations scripture reads without the word virgin or fact, and offer a much better understanding:
"These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they kept themselves pure. They follow the Lamb wherever he goes."
Heaven - Since Peter and the apostles had wives, having marital relations obviously did not mean defiling themselves with women. So this, too, must be symbolic.
BTW, I always used the NIV translation when doing my bible study with JW's (trust issues which eventually served me well ), so I noticed a lot of differences between scriptures, even though they assured me that each of our bibles said the same thing. There was something about an 'army of women' in the NWT. It wasn't worded like that at all in mine; I just can't remember which scripture that was. When I pointed this out, I got looks of confusion.
Tammy
mindmelda

I'm sure this implies the same kind of spiritual "celibacy" that was figuratively carried out by actual warriors by abstaining and refers to spiritual purity.
It's a common enough ritualistic theme, as someone mentioned not just among the Jews, but among many cultures who had warrior values.
The Bronze Age tribal Hebrews were definitely a warrior culture, just read their writings. They use war as a metaphor for spiritual ideas quite a bit. Warrior god, warrior culture.
Women are rather devalued in warrior cultures with warrior gods because those replaced the earlier female gods who represented the earth, fertility, life force and sensuality rather than war, aggression and the sky/sun/lightening. Jehovah or Yahweh is definitely a warrior god, at least by this time in the history of the Jews.
The theme of women being "defiling" or representing temptation, sin or weakness is a constant throughout the Bible. Especially prostitutes, of course, perhaps more so because they often carried and spread disease. To the Jews, spiritual cleanlinesss and physical or sexual purity had no real defining differences..ritual cleanliness was constantly required and women had a greater burden that way because they were simply regarded as less spiritually evolved and spiritually and physically more unclean because of that.
Those feminine elements came to be seen as weakening the masculine ones according to what is called "sympathetic magic" and so abstaining from touching women or sexual relations with them came to be a pre-battle ritual for many warrior cultures. The Hebrew culture of that time was no different than many others in those ideas of sympathetic magic, that touching or looking at something could cause a magical transference, or that nature could be controlled through ritual.
That kind of superstition about feminine aspects weakening warriors, even spiritual warriors, was also prevalent in Greek and Roman religions, so it's no wonder that it carried over into Christian times and of course, that part of the Bible as both a literal uncleanness and a metaphorical or spiritual one.
Oh, at one time there was hints in the WTS publications that perhaps gender would be done away with in the earthly paradise as well as the heavenly realm, where of course gender makes no difference anyway as angels are represented as asexual, and the ones who did want sex with human women were considered fallen or defiled...there it is again. Angels are always represented biblically as male, it was only much later than female or child angels (puti) became Christian representations. Probably borrowed from pagan representation...lots of carry over there from Hellenistic influences there too.

'Not defiled by women in fact they are virgins' ??

Chalam

Who are the 144,000?

QuestForThruth

not a captive

tec

mindmelda

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