Are you like Ivan Ilych?

by AK - Jeff 11 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  AK - Jeff

  His reaction at the knowledge that he was mortal - was yours similar when you recognized that you would die?

  On some level it seems very difficult as a human being to accept one's mortality. Though we may acknowledge it verbally, we submerge our heads in the figurative sand when it comes to realistic acceptance. Many humans reach the end of their lives, even though they have been seriously ill or elderly [and thus acutely aware of our impending doom] and still, upon death, have little solid plans made to help the survivors cope with the loss.

  I believe that highly charged fantasy has caused many witnesses, and indeed many former witnesses to remain in virtual denial of their own mortality.

  How have you reacted? Could Tolstoy's Ivan Ilych be a model for you? How has the 'bullet-proof' mentality of Jw's impacted your worldview still? Or have you come to deal with this reality - that death is part of life ?

  Jeff
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  dissed

  I am concerned with my mortality......

  As a JW, I never gave it a thought, because we would soon see the New Order. But upon leaving the group AND reaching 50, plus, losing friends through death, a person is forced to confront the thought.

  And yes, I am searching for answers and trying to act like I am not overly concerned.

  I liked what a good friend here said to me. "Well, I guess we'll have that answered one way or the other, the day after we die. In the mean time, I plan on having some fun and helping a few people which makes me happy"
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  AK - Jeff

  Yes, dissed, the 50 year milestone does bring mortality to the fore, doesn't it?

  Seems like every time I pick up the newspaper, I see another name I recognize in the obits.

  I think many of us get all 'smug' in our happy world, thinking, like Ivan, that we are not going to die. Or at least that it is so far away that we can ignore the reality for the moment.

  Not all dread the idea. Socrates' death scene paints him jovial and still digging into the minds of others in his final day. He drinks the hemlock and accepts death as inevitable, if not indeed, preferable to this life. Still, his philosophy [or at least that painted to his heart by Plato] was of immortality of his soul. His implacable spirit in the face of it was the spirit of a man deluded with eternity perhaps? The religion of some soothes them that way, like morphine dulls the reality of real pain, but does nothing to heal the wounds themselves.

  I prefer to look death deep in the eye, and fend him off well. Knowing in the end that death will win. He always wins. Perhaps it need not be horrible to die. For how will I know it when I am gone? Like drifting off to surgery- dreamless, without awareness. If one does not return, one is not aware of any loss. Non-existence can hold no pain.

  Still I savor life. To a point, I savor it.

  Jeff
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  Mattieu

  Hi AK Jeff,

  I enjoyed your comments on the subject, though I am a bit like Dissed, though reaching 40 and leaving the Borg was a real slap in the face in accepting the fact that I will grow old & die. It is a difficult subject, particularly as a “born in” who was never going to make it to school.

  Mattieu....
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  Wasanelder Once

  Oddly enough it was the WT that made me painfully aware that this life ends whenever it does and when it does you are finished unless Jehoover decides to bring you back. I always thought, "If I become nothing, then what is he bringing back? If its only a memory restored then its not me but a group of thoughts If that isn't the soul what is?" I accepted death as the end and it terrified me. It made such sense from looking at the world around me that I accepted it. I still do. Now I just don't worry about the after. I live now and the hell with all the work to earn more. I don't buy it. I want to go out being the best dust I can. W.Once
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  Gregor

  I will just say that, thankfully, at 64, I have a handle on the inevitability of death and do not fear it. I will live on through my family's memories and my genetic mark. All good things come to an end. A good rest at the end of a long day.
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  wobble

  I like Gregor's attitude, at peace with reality. I too am only weeks away from the "three score years and ten" ,about 500 weeks, but that aint long.

  I do not fear death, I fear wasting the time I have left, and I would like to make my mark so that people remember me, in a positive way.

  Perhaps someone will write, "A day in the life of Wobble"

  Wobble
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  THE GLADIATOR

  When I left the JW set-up I too had to adjust to the reality of my mortality. I was no longer chosen for a special purpose but just a fool whom reality had caught up with. Standing on the platform in my smart suit lecturing people, had been pretentious. Believing that I knew the answers to all life’s questions while the rest of the world stumbled in the dark had been arrogant.

  All my life I had been promised that I would never grow old and die but would live forever on earth, when it was turned into a paradise. I began to realize that I was going to grow old and die like everyone else. After so many wasted years believing I was chosen, coming to terms with the reality that I was just like every other human, was a humbling experience.
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  AK - Jeff

  Tolstoy's depiction of Ivan Ilych is particularly striking to me as it applies metaphorically to 21st century western culture. Like Ivan, the goals held out to most are just empty, pitiable. Goods are just material things that will eventually go to dust along with us. It is relationships, goodness toward others, and inner peace, that will dissolve the fear of death, in my opinion.

  Ironically, it was my rejection of religion, and my acceptance of reality that has aided me to find peace with death. That is not to say that I am happy I will someday die. Not at all. But I happy not to be seeking to please a godlike being of some sort whom I trust to give me forever in the clouds after I die.

  The ride will end. We will not miss life, for in non-existence there is no loss for us. It is as it was before we were conceived. We didn't miss life then, for we had not existed. Once we exist no more there is only a name left behind. As if we never were. In a hundred years, no one will recall my name, for they will have all died too, including my children and my grandchildren. In 200 even my grave marker will be forgotten, perhaps crumbled and gone. And there is no loss in that. I won't exist then.

  Live.

  Jeff
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  PSacramento

  I have seen death, violent and bloody, I have seen it happen and seen the aftermath and I am all to aware of my own mortality.

  I don't fear death, it is a part of life and I have noticed that life tends to be far more "fearful" then death.

  I have provided for my wife and children so that when I die, they will have LESS worries than if I die and they are not taken care of finacially.

  As for the rest, to be honest, I don't give it much thought, the afterlife I mean.

  My coming to God was always about the NOW and not the AFTER.

  I really don't know what happens after we die and, well, to a certain extent I don't care.

  If there is nothing, then there is nothing, if there is soemthing, then there is something.