Don't ask questions if you are not prepared to accept the response with good grace and respect.
Plus shouting at people with bold or capitalised text is just rude.
A serious question for Christians and Non-Christians: How Can Love Hate?
by sabastious 40 Replies latest watchtower bible
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mindmelda
Gee, I guess I could hate not loving people. *G*
Okay, aside from being ingenuous, isn't the thought there that the Christian God so personifies love that He could be said to be The Personification of that quality?
I think love would have to be an entity rather than a quality of personality or behavior in that case and how does that work?
I'm having flashbacks to Robert Heinlein's "Stranger in a Strange Place" which is sort of a science fiction Messiah tale and he would say "I grok" meaning "love/understand/am" you all at the same time because to love was to empathically "BE" the person in his way of thinking.
A God who loves you could also said to be Love or even to be YOU if he's able to empathize completely.
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spawn
So you would be linguistically correct when you say "I God my wife" or "I God You". Love, according the Bible is a FORCE that humans TAP INTO in order to use. We CANNOT love on our own, according to the Bible.
What is this crap about, God Hate everyone or we would already be living in a the so salled New System that these fools are waiting for.
Newbies if you are going to start a thead you should have the decency to respect other peoples opinions.
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mindmelda
I'm not sure I can think of the New System as "loving" anymore. Mind control and living forever gardening, sheparding sheepies, petting pandas, tigers and lions and living under the thumb of the elders? *shudder*
Gee, sounds like Bronze Age Palestine meets Sigmund and Roy, without the tribal wars, or the sparkly fashion sense.
It's funny how the WTS "New System" always sounds so pastoral and...boring now.
My idea of paradise these days is decent room service, a daquiri with the right amount of rum, discreet maids and a well hung Greek pool boy rubbing my back.
But back to the love thing, I'm glad I wasn't the only one confuzzled by that question. I feel a bit smarter now.
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Chalam
Hello sabastious,
If God = Love than how can Love be capable of hate?
Because Love is just and hates evil which is injustice and the antithesis of Love.
Romans 12:9 (New International Version)
9 Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good.
1 Corinthians 13:6 (New International Version)
6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth.
Blessings, Stephen -
Twitch
Love / Hate
Light / Darkness
God / Satan
Heads / Tails
Same coin, different side
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sabastious
@Twitch - Elaborate on that, it's a good start.
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Life is now
I personally do not believe a God of love could hate a person. There is no scripture in the Greek scriptures that speaks of God hating a person. The Hebrew word that is translated to hate does not mean to hate in the sense that we generally understand hate to mean.
http://www.biblicalhebrew.com/nt/lovehate.htm
'Hate your parents', Matthew 10:37, Luke 14:26 Hate your father
"If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple." (Luke 14:26)
Talmudim, 'students' of Jewish rabbis were taught to place their affections for their teachers higher than that for their fathers, for:"his teacher has priority, for his father brought him into this world, but his teacher, who has taught him wisdom, brings him into the world to come".
But 'hatred'? Surely that is taking loyalty to your teacher too far - even if your teacher is God in human form. For another commandment is that of honouring ones parents - which itself cannot be contradicted. Indeed, this verse in Luke has caused much anguish and pain between zealous Christian sons or daughters and their parents, who believing they were expressing their devotion to Jesus, had no regard or worse still, hatred, for their parents.
But what we have here is another Hebrew problem. Biblical Hebrew lacks the necessary language to exactly define the comparative sense, i.e., 'more than' or 'less than'. Instead it tends to express two things which may be comparatively of different degree like 'first' and 'second' as extremes such as 'first' and 'last'. In this way love and hate whilst appearing as opposites may in fact be related but lesser terms such as 'love more' and 'love less'."If a man have two wives, one beloved, and another hated, and they have born him children, both the beloved and the hated; and if the firstborn son be hers that was hated: Then it shall be, when he maketh his sons to inherit that which he hath, that he may not make the son of the beloved firstborn before the son of the hated, which is indeed the firstborn: But he shall acknowledge the son of the hated for the firstborn, by giving him a double portion of all that he hath: for he is the beginning of his strength; the right of the firstborn is his." (Deuteronomy 21:15-17)
A Jewish man was not allowed to abandon a 'hated' wife's son's rights of inheritance. But more than this, the Deuteronomy passage describes favouritism between two wives, not absolute love and hatred, for the man bears children by both. Hence, different Bible versions struggle with the phrase "hated" and some adopt "unloved" or "disliked", as softer phrases. However, the Hebrew word used in the second phrase is sânê' (Strong’s #8130) which in its more than 140 uses is always translated by 'hate' or by words indicating 'foe' or 'enemy'. Literal versions cannot soften the apparent invective, only an idiomatic understanding or paraphrase can explain the metaphor.
The Hebrew sânê' is the opposite of love which could mean 'non-election'. This contrast is the same in Genesis 29:31 between Leah ('hated' s e nû’âh from sânê’) and Rachel, who in the previous verse is described as "loved more than Leah", a contrast of degree not of absolute love and hate. Compare also the passages in Deuteronomy 21:15-17 above; 1 Samuel 1:5; Proverbs 30:23; 2 Samuel 19:6; and even Exodus 20:3 which speaks of preferring others gods as equivalent to hating God (cf. Matthew 6:24 on serving God and mammon, loving one and hating the other).
The Jewish midrash on Exodus describes God as hating the angels, and not just the fallen ones. It does not mean he dislikes Michael and Gabriel! It means that he chooses to give man the Torah, rather than the angels:"By three names is this mount known: The mountain of God, Mount Horeb and Mount Sinai. . . . Why The mountain of God? (Exodus 18:5). Because it was there that God manifested His Godhead. And Sinai? Because [it was on that mount] that God showed that He hates the angels and loves mankind." (Exodus Rabbah 51.8, Soncino edition)
There is actually a Hebrew wordplay here, for Sinai sounds like the Hebrew for hate, although it begins with a different Hebrew letter and may mean 'thorny'. Similarly, Malachi speaks of God's preference for Jacob over Esau:"... yet I loved Jacob, and I hated Esau..." (Malachi 1:2-3)
But Esau, like Ishmael instead of Isaac, was not hated absolutely, only "rejected" as the Aramaic targum (paraphrase) prefers to render it. In Aramaic sanah can mean 'to hate' and 'to separate', so the gospels could be saying separate yourselves from your parents if you want to follow me. This is a possible interpretation, but still against Jewish and biblical culture which is very supportive of family. Apart from Jesus' 'separating' and staying behind in the temple when he was younger he was a very dutiful son.
Matthew, in fact, gives the game away and here a synopsis of the gospels and a little Hebrew understanding could have answered our question from the first, for he translates as "love less" rather than "hate":"He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me." (Matthew 10:37)
Whilst Jesus does predict division as a result of following him he does not proscribe hatred for elsewhere he upholds the precept, "honour your father and your mother" (Matthew 15:4-6, 19:17-19; Mark 7:10-13).
Jesus expressed degrees in his love. He chose 12 disciples but 3 especially he spent time with and one of these, John, is called the one that Jesus loved (John 13:23; 20:2; 21:7,20). Jesus also had a special place in his heart for Martha, Lazarus and family (John 11:5).
Even if one were to take this 'hating' verse literally, a semantic twist would have you back where you started. For, Jesus tells us that our enemies will be the members of our own family, yet we are also taught, "love your enemies"! (Matthew 5:44; Luke 6:27,35) -
Life is now
This is the JW's explanation in the Insight book Volume 1 pages 1042 - 1044
HATE
In the Scriptures the word "hate" has several shades of meaning. It may denote intense hostility, sustained ill will often accompanied by malice. Such hate may become a consuming emotion seeking to bring harm to its object. "Hate" may also signify a strong dislike but without any intent to bring harm to the object, seeking instead to avoid it because of a feeling of loathing toward it. The Bible also employs the word "hate" to mean loving to a lesser degree. (Ge 29:31, 33; De 21:15, 16) For example, Jesus Christ said: "If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own soul, he cannot be my disciple." (Lu 14:26) Obviously Jesus did not mean that his followers were to feel hostility or loathing toward their families and toward themselves, as this would not be in agreement with the rest of the Scriptures.—Compare Mr 12:29-31; Eph 5:28, 29, 33.
God’s law to Israel stated: "You must not hate your brother in your heart." (Le 19:17) One of the requirements for one presenting himself as an unintentional manslayer and seeking to gain safety in the cities of refuge was that he had not held hatred toward the one slain.—De 19:4, 11-13.
Hate
One’sEnemies? Jesus’ counsel to love one’s enemies is in full harmony with the spirit of the Hebrew Scriptures. (Mt 5:44) Faithful Job recognized that any feeling of malicious joy over the calamity of one intensely hating him would have been wrong. (Job 31:29) The Mosaic Law enjoined upon the Israelites the responsibility to come to the aid of other Israelites whom they might view as their enemies. (Ex 23:4, 5) Instead of rejoicing over the disaster of an enemy, God’s servants are instructed: "If the one hating you is hungry, give him bread to eat; and if he is thirsty, give him water to drink."—Pr 24:17, 18; 25:21.The idea that enemies were to be hated was one of the things added to God’s law by the Jewish teachers of tradition. Since the Law directed that the Israelites love their neighbors (Le 19:18), these teachers inferred that this implied hating their enemies. "Friend" and "neighbor" came to be viewed as applying exclusively to Jews, whereas all others were considered to be natural enemies. In the light of their traditional understanding of "neighbor" and in view of tradition that fostered enmity toward the Gentiles, it can readily be seen why they added the unauthorized words "and hate your enemy" to the statement in God’s law.—Mt 5:43.
The Christian, by contrast, is under obligation to love his enemies, that is, those who make themselves personal enemies. Such love (Gr., a·ga´pe) is not sentimentality, based on mere personal attachment, as is usually thought of, but is a moral or social love based on deliberate assent of the will as a matter of principle, duty, and propriety, sincerely seeking the other’s good according to what is right. A·ga´pe (love) transcends personal enmities, never allowing these to cause one to abandon right principles and to retaliate in kind. As to those who oppose his Christian course and persecute him, doing so in ignorance, the servant of God will even pray for such that their eyes might be opened to see the truth concerning God and His purposes.—Mt 5:44.
Proper
Hatred. Nevertheless, under certain conditions and at certain times it is proper to hate. "There is . . . a time to love and a time to hate." (Ec 3:1, 8) Even of Jehovah it is said that he hated Esau. (Mal 1:2, 3) But this cannot be attributed to any arbitrariness on God’s part. Esau proved himself unworthy of Jehovah’s love by despising his birthright and selling it and hence also the divine promises and blessings attached thereto. Moreover, he purposed to kill his brother Jacob. (Ge 25:32-34; 27:41-43; Heb 12:14-16) God also hates lofty eyes, a false tongue, hands that are shedding innocent blood, a heart fabricating hurtful schemes, feet that are in a hurry to run to badness, a false witness, anyone sending forth contentions among brothers, in fact, everyone and everything standing in complete opposition to Jehovah and his righteous laws.—Pr 6:16-19; De 16:22; Isa 61:8; Zec 8:17; Mal 2:16.What
kindofhatredmustservantsofGodcultivate?
In true loyalty to Jehovah, his servants hate what and whom he hates. (2Ch 19:2) "Do I not hate those who are intensely hating you, O Jehovah, and do I not feel a loathing for those revolting against you? With a complete hatred I do hate them. They have become to me real enemies." (Ps 139:21, 22) But this hate does not seek to inflict injury on others and is not synonymous with spite or malice. Rather, it finds expression in its utter abhorrence of what is wicked, avoiding what is bad and those intensely hating Jehovah. (Ro 12:9, 17, 19) Christians rightly hate those who are confirmed enemies of God, such as the Devil and his demons, as well as men who have deliberately and knowingly taken their stand against Jehovah.
While Christians have no love for those who turn the undeserved kindness of God into an excuse for loose conduct, they do not hate persons who become involved in wrongdoing but who are worthy of being shown mercy. Instead of hating the repentant wrongdoer, they hate the wicked act, yes, "even the inner garment that has been stained by the flesh."—Jude 4, 23.
Avoiding
ImproperHatred. Upon becoming Christians, persons who formerly hated one another do so no longer. (Tit 3:3) The one hating his brother is still walking in darkness, and any claim on his part to be a lover of God would really be a lie. Hatred of one’s brother is tantamount to murder.—1Jo 2:9, 11; 4:20; 3:15.Sentimentality can cause one’s view of love and hate to get out of balance, as was apparently true of David in connection with his son Absalom. (2Sa 18:33; 19:1-6) Thus, too, "the one holding back his rod is hating his son, but the one loving him is he that does look for him with discipline."—Pr 13:24.
By respecting the privacy of others and showing loving consideration, a person can avoid unnecessarily making himself an object of hatred. Hence the advice: "Make your foot rare at the house of your fellowman, that he may not have his sufficiency of you and certainly hate you."—Pr 25:17.
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tec
The Hebrew word that is translated to hate does not mean to hate in the sense that we generally understand hate to mean.
I've often thought that we mistranslate words and lose meanings, going from one language to another. Even certain rites or sayings lose their meaning, thousands of years later. Yet, I still believe that we can come to the correct meaning in the bible when we read Jesus' sayings, and look at the scriptures as a whole and with an open heart/mind.
Thanks for the link, Life is Now.
Tammy