Nathan Nadas!
"Enjoy life free of superstitions and fantasies." That's pretty close to what satan said to Eve! Look what hit the fan when she took his advice!~ Wannabe
Are some of the anointed ones now already ressurrected and gone to heaven as the society claim?
by Truthexplorer 20 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Chalam
Hello wannabe,
It's not possible any are in heaven at this time, due to the fact that the final sealing of the heavenly calling isn't completed as yet.
Can I ask where these people are? Hebrews 11
Or Stephen?
Acts 7:56-60 (New International Version)
56 "Look," he said, "I see heaven open and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God."
57 At this they covered their ears and, yelling at the top of their voices, they all rushed at him, 58 dragged him out of the city and began to stone him. Meanwhile, the witnesses laid their clothes at the feet of a young man named Saul.
59 While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit." 60 Then he fell on his knees and cried out, "Lord, do not hold this sin against them." When he had said this, he fell asleep.
Or the thief?
Luke 23:42-43 (New International Version)
42 Then he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom."
43 Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise."
And why did Paul write this?
2 Corinthians 5:1-8 (New International Version)
Our Heavenly Dwelling
1 Now we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands. 2 Meanwhile we groan, longing to be clothed with our heavenly dwelling, 3 because when we are clothed, we will not be found naked. 4 For while we are in this tent, we groan and are burdened, because we do not wish to be unclothed but to be clothed with our heavenly dwelling, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life. 5 Now it is God who has made us for this very purpose and has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.6 Therefore we are always confident and know that as long as we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord. 7 We live by faith, not by sight. 8 We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord.
Blessings,
Stephen
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moomanchu
The Bible clearly answers: "For the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all." (Ecclesiastes 9:5) When a person dies, "his spirit goes out, he goes back to his ground; in that day his thoughts do perish." (Psalm 146:4) There is no immortal soul to perform cures or to terrify living ones. For the Bible clearly shows that "the soul that is sinning—it itself will die." (Ezekiel 18:4; Romans 3:23) What, then, accounts for all the phenomena associated with ancestor worship? Wicked spirit creatures (demons) led by Satan the Devil! (Revelation 12:9, 12) Apparently, Satan’s demon followers delight in misleading humans by posing as deceased ancestors.—Compare 1 Samuel 28:7-19.
Why, though, does ancestor worship persist in spite of Christendom’s strenuous efforts to eradicate it? Note what the EncyclopædiaBritannica says: "Ancestor-worship has its parallels in Christian cults of the dead and of the saints." Such "parallels" are due to Christendom’s belief in an immortal soul. Ironically, then, Christendom’s missionaries have done little more than reinforce the African belief that dead ancestors can help and harm. Says Dr. Ngubane in the book BodyandMindinZuluMedicine: "Usually a Christian Zulu living in a chiefdom [tribal area] does not find Christian beliefs and ancestral beliefs incompatible.
True, Christendom’s clergy often vehemently deny the existence of demons. But Jesus Christ himself had a personal encounter with Satan the Devil. (Luke 4:1-13) The Bible even tells of his casting evil spirits out of demon-possessed victims. (Luke 4:33-37; 8:27-33; 9:37-42) Ancestor worshipers are thus unwittingly cooperating with man’s greatest enemy—Satan!
awake85 7/22 23-4
Obviously then any who claim to be ressurrected since 1918 must be demons. ha
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heathen
Let's everybody just ignore Natas , he just likes to crap on threads more than discuss anything .
The WTBTS resurrection dogma is all hinged on the gentile times concluding in 1914. The apostle Paul always sounded so conflicted over issues and deserves scrutiny when being quoted . I don't know if people tampered with the writings or he was mentally ill at times from reading it. I know the WTBTS has pulled a 180 from time to time based on Pauls meanderings. For example - superior authorities dogma. The bible is clearly the most symbolic book on the planet and there are many things that are literal and symbolic . I think what Paul was talking about was a future resurection when christ returned as king but aparently jehovah can see people as being alive in the present while actually meaning the future . In Daniel 11-12 we are looking at the future, obviously during the tribulation that is caused by warring nations . Michael stands up and the dead are resurrected and judged .
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Truthexplorer
It's not possible any are in heaven at this time, due to the fact that the final sealing of the heavenly calling isn't completed as yet. Read Revelation 7:1-4 where it tells us four Angels are holding back the four winds of destruction until the final sealing of the heavenly calling is completed. Those four Angels are still holding tight those four winds. All of the heavenly calling had to be all together at the same time. None would begin to reign as king priests unless they were all together at the same time.
You are correct Wannabe,
It simply doesnt make sense that most of the anointed are now in heaven, especially, as you have rightly pointed out - before the final sealing has been completed!
It would seem incredible (as the society claim) that most of the anointed are already in heaven alongside Christ, before the marriage of the lamb?
TE
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Nathan Natas
Yes, ignore my crap.
Waste the only life you'll ever live dreaming of a better life beyond the veil, praying for the day you die. Or devote your waking hours to Medival Re-enactment festivals, or StarTrek conventions, all equally worthwhile.
Whatever you do, don't dare to develop spines and stand on your hind legs. Don't develop your mental abilities or your capacity for rational thought, because then you'd be FREE, and ohhh, kids, that's SCARY!
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heathen
Natas - Is that the only point you care to make because if it is we get the idea and you can move along in your sophisticated life that's so out of our league we are beneath your very intellect. If you want to promote atheism then start your own thread where all your followers can basque in the glow of your genious . (gag)
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Nathan Natas
It's just that I think of the mental enrgy devoted to understanding the lives and desires of imaginary beings, and I wonder how much the world would benefit if that energy was directed into something useful, like painting fences.
So fall opn your knees praying to Count Chocula if you must, but know that you probably are capable of much more.
Oh - and get a spelling checker.
"Pourly spelt centenses dont' help yur argument, Professor."
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cattails
This is an idea pertinent to another topic I read in another forum (from Ros at ChannelC), she says:
"Do we not all know that the Watchtower teaches that the 144,000 "saints" will rule as kings with Jesus Christ for 1000 years?"
Then she goes on to point out the problem with the Watchtower teaching:
1) Christ returned in 1914.
2) Wasn't it 1919 when the "annointed" who had died began to be resurrected?
3) In a little more than 4 years, Christ will have been reigning for 100 years.
4) The thousand years does not begin until after Armageddon.
5) Some of the "annointed" do not die until some time after Armageddon according to the Revelation book.
6) Jehovah's Witnesses say these numbers are literal (144,000 and 1000 years).
And she arrives at this conclusion:"If Christ began reigning in 1914, and not all of the 144,000 have begun reigning, nor will until after Armageddon,
then at no time can it be said that Christ + 144,000 reigned for a literal 1000 years. Even if Armageddon occurred tomorrow,
Christ would have to reign for at least 1096 years Himself. The longer Armageddon is put off, and the more JWs who join
the annointed rank, ... well, you get the picture." -
Nathan Natas
"If Christ began reigning in 1914, and not all of the 144,000 have begun reigning, nor will until after Armageddon,
then at no time can it be said that Christ + 144,000 reigned for a literal 1000 years. Even if Armageddon occurred tomorrow,
Christ would have to reign for at least 1096 years Himself. The longer Armageddon is put off, and the more JWs who join
the anointed rank, ... well, you get the picture."Q. E. D., this is nonsense, a frivolous pursuit, on the same level as wondering if all the king's horses and all the king's med could put Humpty-Dumpty together again.
When you were a child, you were told many incredible stories, like Aesop's fables, tales by the brothers Grimm, stories of creation and a world wide flood. You were told that some of these stories were made up and some were true. Today you still believe that some of this stuff is true, or that it is a "representational" truth. If you had been told the opposite, today you'd be insisting that Aesop's fables REALLY HAPPENED - with talking foxes, rabbits and turtles, and that the sixty-six fables of the great book with it's talking snakes and poison apples was pure fantasy.