Romans 8:10 "But if Christ is in you ..." (Not in Union with you)
And elswhere.
Most-Ignored Scriptures by JWs
by Mad Sweeney 508 Replies latest watchtower bible
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TTWSYF
I've come up with a nick name for Mad JW. Plankton from SpongeBob Square Pants. What do you think MJW? Will Plankton fly?
Who's with me?
dc
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just a reader
Concerning kids getting baptized, I think 1Peter 2:21 is ignored. If we are to follow Christ closely, he was baptized at 30, certainly being a mature adult should be an important factor in this decision.
21 In fact, to this [course] YOU were called, because even Christ suffered for YOU , leaving YOU a model for YOU to follow his steps closely.
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Chalam
Ephesians 4:4-6 (New International Version)
4 There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to one hope when you were called— 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.
The WT have two hopes, one heavenly and one earthly.
The WT have two bodies, one in heaven and one on the earth
The WT have two Lords, one Jehovah and one Jesus (see Romans 10:9, Romans 10:13 in the NWT for example).
The WT have two faiths, one for the anointed and one for those who aren't (see Luke 22:19 for example).
The WT have two Gods (see John 1:1 in the NWT for example).
The WT have two Fathers (see Isaiah 9:6 and Romans 8:15).
The WT have two Creators (see John 1:1-3 for example).
Blessings,
Stephen
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theMadJW
Jd goes from dumb to dumber: "
LOLOLOLOLO!
Churchoids say Jesus is God Almighty.
Jesus (and the above verse) say he is the IMAGE of God.
Who, oh WHO should I believe?
heh
That's another lie perpetuated by the JWs.
The Jehovah's Witnesses preach, incorrectly, that trinitarian Christians teach that the created humanity of Jesus, the creature, is God Almighty; but that is also false. Orthodox Christians - the overwhelming majority of Catholic and Protestant churches - teach that: “The humanity of Christ is a creature, it is not God” (Catholic Encyclopedia, 922). Understanding the hypostatic union will go a long way to claritying your confusion.
Mad: In other words the Almighty DID give up being God when becoming man- a creation! The 'umanity' of Christ...you mean he actually became a man????? WOW! What a REVELATION!!!!
Furthermore, the fact that He is referred to as the "image" doesn't help your case. Angels are invisible spirit creatures as well, and when they manifested themselves to Abraham, the physical "image" does not mean they stopped being angels and were separate creatures.
Mad: Bwahahahahahahahahahaha! So, they were images of THEMSELVES? Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahaa! No bearing, either way- so your accusation of us lying reveals who the REAL Liar is.....
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theMadJW
"Romans 8:10 "But if Christ is in you ..." (Not in Union with you)
Is Jesus literally living inside of millions of Christians, or, as in saying "That's your father in you..." meaning he is IN UNION with them?
Let's LISTEN how Jesus USED this term:
John 17:21- That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
Looking at it with church goggles on, we see God literally living in millions of human bodies, Christ literally living in millions of human bodies, and millions of humans literally living in God, and millions of humans literally living in Christ! WHOOP_WHOOP! Call the Paddywagon!
Christ made it PLAIN what was meant next-
22And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one.
No, trinitarians- Christians are NOT God Almighty, but one in UNION with Him and Christ!
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theMadJW
JAR- I agree- that is one of our many MISTAKES!
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TTWSYF
Oh Plankton, will you ever learn?!
dc
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theMadJW
Still waiting for a scripture we supposedly ignore....
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jonathan dough
Mad: In other words the Almighty DID give up being God when becoming man- a creation! The 'umanity' of Christ...you mean he actually became a man????? WOW! What a REVELATION!!!!
No, not at all. The Word, God the Son, the second person of the Trinity, never stopped being God. He became God-Man, the hypostatic union, by assuming a human nature. He was and is a divine person who assumed a human nature, not God who stopped being God and became a creature. This is where your confusion lies. http://144000.110mb.com/trinity/index-2.html
God the Son, the Word, when He emptied Himself to take the form of a slave never ceased being fully God. It was his Glory that was veiled for a time being; he temporarily resigned his “status.”
Christ possessed equality with God prior to His incarnation, and then for a time veiled that glory, being always God in all of the co-equal attributes, but in the incarnation never using His Godly powers to better Himself. He was fully God, fully man, God taking on the likeness of sinful flesh (Rom 8:3), not a man adding Godliness. (Strong and Vine’s, 42)
ME: Furthermore, the fact that He is referred to as the "image" doesn't help your case. Angels are invisible spirit creatures as well, and when they manifested themselves to Abraham, the physical "image" does not mean they stopped being angels and were separate creatures.
Mad: Bwahahahahahahahahahaha! So, they were images of THEMSELVES? Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahaa! No bearing, either way- so your accusation of us lying reveals who the REAL Liar is.....
ME: Do you sincerely believe that speaking in such a childish manner helps your cause any? You make all JWs by association look foolish and immature. So keep it up. You're doing us all a big favor.
Here is more information on the God-Man: http://144000.110mb.com/trinity/index.html#5
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"Romans 8:10 "But if Christ is in you ..." (Not in Union with you)
Is Jesus literally living inside of millions of Christians,
Yes, this is precisely what they teach. You are simply evading the Word by changing it, and we all know what will happen to those who change God's word. That He is also in union with the Christian goes without saying.
Looking at it with church goggles on, we see God literally living in millions of human bodies, Christ literally living in millions of human bodies, and millions of humans literally living in God, and millions of humans literally living in Christ! WHOOP_WHOOP! Call the Paddywagon!
Yes, that is precisely what they teach in a "spiritual" sense, although you're stretching the logic too far claiming that Christians are God Almighty as a result. That's the JW spin. You are reading too much into that. That's just silly. We are dealing with Spirit, Jehovah is the Spirit, Christ is the Spirit, Christ is in you, God is in you, the Holy Spirit dwells in you. The three persons of the Trinity are not separable. And the argument can be made that glorified Christians are indeed folded into the Trinity, as part of the life stream; that we share in the divine nature.
Christ made it PLAIN what was meant next-
22And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one.
No, trinitarians- Christians are NOT God Almighty, but one in UNION with Him and Christ!
This is not the issue. The question is whether Christ is IN the Christian, whether the Holy Spirit and God can be IN a person. There are many, many examples of the indwelling. We're not dealing with flesh and blood persons like you or I, but spirit.
The Jehovah’s Witnesses erroneously think of “Person” as an individual self-conscious human person (Encyclopedia of Religion, 57), and we humans don’t engage in the kind of conduct the three Persons of the Trinity do, such as inner dialogue where people combined within a human person speak to each other. Or, they argue that the Holy Spirit cannot be a person because it appeared as a dove or flames of fire, never in the form of a human. And, it seems irrational to them that one such person can inhabit another person, so the Holy Person cannot be a person (Should You Believe, Chapter 6). They write:
On one occasion the holy spirit appeared as a dove. On another occasion it appeared as tongues of fire - never as a person. (Should You Believe, Chapter 8).
[R]egarding Samson, Judges 14:6 relates: “The spirit of Yahweh seized on him and though he had no weapon in his hand he tore the lion in pieces.” (JB) Did a divine person actually enter or seize Samson, manipulating his body to do what he did? No, it was really “the power of the LORD [that] made Samson strong. (TEV) (Should You Believe, Chapter 6) (emphasis added).
A comparison of Bible texts that refer to the holy spirit shows that it is spoken of as ‘filling’ people; they can be ‘baptized’ with it; and they can be “anointed” with it … None of these expressions would be appropriate if the holy spirit were a person. (Reasoning from the Scriptures [New York, Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, 1985], 380) (Reasoning)
First, the Jehovah's Witnesses fail to recognize that we are dealing with spirit, not flesh (the Holy Spirit is, after all, spirit), and the Bible is replete with examples of spirit persons entering individuals such as the spirit person Satan who entered Judas (Luke 22:3), and spirit demons who routinely inhabit people (Matthew 8:29-31). Furthermore, Jehovah is a spirit person and is the Holy Spirit who dwells in the Christian believer (2 Corinthians 3:17, 18 NWT), as does Christ (Romans 8:9-11; see also John 4:24). The Jehovah’s Witnesses’ objections in this regard are groundless.
And simply because the Holy Spirit took the form of a dove or tongues of fire and not a human person does not mean He is not a spirit person. After all, the Almighty is a spirit person though invisible (Colossians 1:15). Angels are spirit persons who took human form, but their mere appearance as humans does not mean they are angels, or that angels who never took human form are not spirit (Genesis 18).
Second, “Person” should be regarded as a contemporary misnomer, an imperfect expression because it connotes a separate rational and moral individual. It is a word erroneously derived from the Latin persona and misapplied in the English modern era, as the Jehovah's Witnesses have done.
Persona: A Latin word regularly used to refer to the three ‘persons’ of the Trinity and to the one ‘person’ of Christ. It therefore fulfills the role in Latin theology performed by hypostasis in Greek. The natural translation into ‘person’ in English is misleading. Persona originally meant a ‘mask’ and then a ‘role.’ It is used to indicate an individual in his or her external presentation, and does not convey the idea of self-consciousness or the internal psychological content suggested by the English word ‘person’ with its close link to the word ‘personality.’ (Oxford, 1210)
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