The four stages of growth of JWD/JWN

by Lady Lee 18 Replies latest jw friends

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  Lady Lee

  Every now and then I think how nice it would be if the board could go back to the way it was in some earlier time of its existence. When I was in university one of the main focuses of the counseling program I was in was group development and how it changes over time. JWN is like any group. It has developed and grown. Some people don't like the change and believe me there I days I wish we could roll back - almost. But the growth has been good. This website has been here for the benefit of thousands of people and has had hundreds of thousands page views.

  And people still keep coming. We have about 4000 active users and 10 times that in page views daily. We must be doing something right.

  This is how I see the progression on the board

  The first era of online xJWs

  Many of the early posters here were real pioneers in getting their brains working again and seeing through the WT theological lies. That is why they are included in the Best of section of the board. At the time that is what interested people. The early xJWs needed to see through the errors and these mostly men (JanG stands out in my mind as a female in the crowd) of WT teachings.

  The second era

  But things moved on and the WTS was looked at more in not what they taught but how hypocritical it was. The scandals started coming out. UN. Mexico/Malawi, sexual abuse of children and all the media coverage. the $$$ scams which seem to be endless, the editing of books and magazines/bound volumes, the convention site rentals/food/parking, changing history, this list goes on with a lot of crap

  The third era

  is more focused on recovery. Some of this coincides with the pedophile issue and spousal abuse coming out but it continued well after the silentlambs march. People were coming on the board in droves exposing WT cover-ups regarding sexual abuse. JWD was THE place to go if you needed support and a place to tell your story. And we found out we were not alone. The problem was worldwide and far larger than anyone realized.

  The fourth era

  Along with the recovery issue people needed a place to develop new social skills. They needed to learn how to communicate outside of the WT-induced mindset. So the social element of the board grew to meet this need. People needed "fluff" after so much talk about sexual abuse. I saw that in working with people. They would have a heavy session and then need a lot of light talk before they could get back into the real work. That is what I see now. People just need to talk - about everything. All the things from previous times are still discussed. Just to a lesser degree. But people just need a place to let off steam, learn to talk like the real world without the loaded language coloring every word that comes off their fingertips.

  They also still need support. Shunning is a huge issue. Sexual abuse still comes up. Custody battles are an issue for many. All of the issues from previous eras are still discussed just not as much. It isn't what people need - as least not as much as they did before. Or maybe it is just the number of posters makes it seem like the issues from previous eras seem to be less frequent.

  When Simon said he was closing the posting function of the board he realized what a wealth of information was left here on JWN. He didn't wan tit to disappear off the internet the way WT Observer and WT Quotes disappeared. So he was content with leaving it up on the internet for people to read. But the outcry of people who wanted the site to remain open moved him to change his mind. So we see what we have today. The board has gone from a few dozen people to hundreds to thousands to tens of thousands. If you look at the Big Boards icon at the bottom of the page JWN ranks as 804 of all internet forum and discussion boards. You won't find a larger xJW board than that.

  Well that is my take on how this boards has grown and changed.

  Got anything to add or your own take on the board and how it has changed? Or did I miss something?
• 

  wobble

  I have only been reading and then posting on here for a short time, though I have spent so many hours on here it seems like years and years, but I have noticed the evolution of the site.

  I think it is of immense and immeasurable value, and your own contribution is a big part of what it is, dear Lady Lee.

  I have gone back and read posts from the very beginning, and most all of the questions Newbies ask have been dealt with, some of the posts are so beautifully argued and written that I have a huge file of them on my pooter and backed up too, just in case JWN is sabotaged one day.

  Well done Simon .the Mrs, and Lady Lee and all concerned, keep up the great work, this site is literally a life saver !

  Love,

  Wobble
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  mindmelda

  I know it's probably not appreciated by everyone, and sometimes kind of rude and obnoxious, even vulgar, but the social, joking and humor threads are just so much fun here.

  It reminds me that the Witnesses were pretty much a no fun zone in many ways. The restrictions on language and behavior and entertainment didn't teach us to be better people...we're like children who don't get to grow up and make our own decisions about those things. We just "behaved" because we were told to.

  Keeping you in some ways like a dependent child is part of the brainwashing. You don't have to think for yourself about much, let Mommy and Daddy WTS do it for you. We'll tell you what to wear, what to say, what's entertaining, what's vulgar, what''s good and bad, and you just comply. And of course, there are punishments for non-compliance.

  Sometimes the joking and humor gets pretty naughty and randy, but I know why. I know it offends some people, but hey, it's just such a RELIEF not to have someone looking over your shoulder, literally or metaphorically, about your behavior, language and entertainment all the time.

  One of the things that got me out of the JW mindset was writing fiction. I'd always written and imagined stories as a child, and after the JW influence, that was so stifled in me. I couldn't write the stories in my head because they were all about "worldly" people and things.

  So, about 12 years ago, I started writing fanfiction, which is kind of a crazy(but god it's fun!) subculture in and of itselt, but it gave me another culture to cross over into and leave the truly insane one of the JWs behind.

  I wrote EVERYTHING...I wrote all those things I'd repressed for so many years. I wrote hard core erotica, gay and straight, and mysteries and fantasies and science fiction and about the lives of Japanese samurai and fairy tales and all that stuff I'd been told for years was BAD!

  I started writing political/ religious humor on a blog and a forum I started with an atheist friend, who has remained my friend through all these changes. We'd piss people off, and it felt great. We'd get into interesting and enlightening conversations about all sorts of deep things...stuff I'd wanted to talk about for most of my life and couldn't, not with Witnesses or in that world.

  I found out there is a whole world of things that I'd been taught were bad and evil that were actually interesting and fun. I also found out that yes, the world has bad things in it, but that didn't mean I had to villainize EVERYTHING in it.

  I found normalcy, whatever normal is, and my own personality again. I found out I'm sometimes rude, bawdy, ridiculous, arrogant and guess what It's okay. It's all right. I didnt have to be perfect for people to like me. I didn't have to be pious and repressed and a big NOTHING.

  So, when I see people teasing and cursing and being vulgar here, I just LOVE it. They're just being human, probably for the first time. Humans are sometime a total pain in the ass, egotistical, vulgar and all that, and it's only by experiencing just a total JERK sometimes that we can start to grow up.

  There's no one more obnoxious than a teenager, believe me, I know...I have three of them! In some ways, we're kind of like that...we're spreading our wings and finding our limits and who we are. We'll probably settle down after a while...well, most of the time. I've still got a lot of rebel in me.

  But, for everyone who gets offended, I hope they realize we're not trying to offend anyone, not really. We're just enjoying being free of all that repression.

  And, within the stated limits, which are totally reasonable, I'm glad we're allowed to cut loose here. God, if anyone needs it, the formerly brainwashed do.
• 

  AllTimeJeff

  Hi Lee, great thread. Thank you in particular for the 4th stage, and putting into words how I see the board now. In fact, that is where I am at.

  Having gone to Gilead with my eyes already open somewhat, and my mind open, I got to meet the GB, got the "special" training, and I knew it was crap. I didn't need the function of the early days. What I personally get out of JWN is twofold.

  First of all, the contributions of early posters like Farkel (he must be really really old! ) Alan F, Randy Watters with freeminds, and others, was to give me a touchstone to confirm what I saw, so that I wasn't alone. I have to mention Crisis of Conscience too. Without those things, the act of both physically AND mentally leaving would have been much harder.

  But I find myself with less and less to expose as a result. Everyone on this board pretty much knows about the scandals and the hypocrisies. There are many ex elders, at least two former missionaries that I know of (Lance and myself) Barbara Anderson posts here. It has caused me in the last several months to rethink my reasons for even being here. Because I don't have anything new to add. And, now over 3 years removed, and with the GB's proven history of changing dogma and procedure, I am no longer an "up to date" apostate. (not complaining about that one bit)

  I left, and while damaged by the GB dogma, I have done ok with myself. I have got some therapy, I have made better decisions, and I credit the ex JW community on the internet, both here and on Ronnie's board for that.

  The "fluff" that Lee mentions is something I have long seen here. In my case, the political threads draw me, and as I re read my own words, I can see that I was putting out a current opinion, and working things out in my head. That is of great value. And it goes without saying that as JW's, we never had that opportunity, seeing that our personal opinions were squelched to such a large degree. I still come here to work out issues on topics involving politics and religion that are important to me.

  The other reason I keep writing is that I feel a responsibility to do something with what I saw for those who are willing to look. Unlike other posters who are sincere and who I have legitimate disagreements with as to their "apostate" approach, I am a firm believer that the ones who leave do so of their own accord, whether they are kicked via disfellowshipping, or have doubts and secretly lurk and try to make up their minds as to what to do, to leave, to fade, etc. In short, they start to take responsibility for themselves, and only they can do that. They need resources on the internet. They need people who have been through a variety of experiences to bounce things off of, to read up, to get the gears in their head going again. In short, they need people who used to be JW's around because we understand. Thinking is hard when you haven't done it in a while....

  This board is very important, precisely because it is a huge mix of personalities and opinions, made up of people who have primarily moved on from JW's. In short, this board represents the biggest lie of all that the GB teaches, that you can't be happy and functioning without being a JW. That unity means agreement, not disagreement. That being your own person is better then standing with the "worldwide association" of brothers and sisters indoctrinated cult members.

  Thanks for reading one former JW's opinion as to the value of JWN. And Lee, for what this is worth, I agree with you 100%. I couldn't be a mod, at least right now in my life, but I thank you for assuming that sometimes time consuming role. (and all the other mods, Simon, Angharad,. Thanks.)
• 

  Lady Lee

  thank you Wobble

  mindmelda Wonderfully put. I totally agree the "fluff" is a mandatory part ofthe recovery process. You should have enough written for a book or two Right?

  AllTimeJeff

  Farkel (he must be really really old! )

  gasp he's just a tad older than me!!! although. . . . some days I feel really really old

  Everyone has mentioned "the mods" Scully - one of the best, and AK - Jeff are the two more active mods
• 

  mindmelda

  LOL...I've always suffered from verbal and written diarrhea...but I didn't post here for months and months after originally finding it, via Randy Watters.

  It's okay, I'm writing a multi chapter fiction at the moment and I'll burn off some of my writing-itis doing that. LOL

  I got what I needed in the serious bits and had to go away for a while and digest it all. I had some decisions to make and what I read here and elsewhere and discussed in private with some people helped me do that.

  I decided to not be overly confrontational but to just slowly fade away from it all. Aside from the fact that it's not my style, I don't think it gets the response I want.

  I'm not out to punish Witnesses or the WTS...It won't help anything. Strangely enough, something in the Bible itself tells me this, it's just conventional wisdom offered by an old Jewish Rabbi...not a Christian. Gamaliel....If this is from God, it will stand no matter what you do, but if not, it won't last.

  I see the Witnesses, eventually becoming a dead end religion. If their promised "Armageddon" or their version of it, and then some sort of paradise, never comes to fruition, where will that leave them?

  A good many Witnesses are slowly but surely tiring of promises of paradise...the reality of living in the now is more on their minds, naturally, and the more the WTS makes them feel guilty about not "putting the Kingdom" first, the more that will either burn out or just leave, fading or leaving with a defiant flounce.

  But, a house of cards just cannot last forever, regardless of how desperately you keep adding cards. That's the analogy that fits the best for me. They just keep adding and shuffling those cards, and still...it's collapsing around them.

  Of course, they will, like any good cult, interpret that according to their current version of the truth, probably that it's signalling the collapse of the system, and not themselves.

  They fail to realize that they are part of the system whether they deny it or not. The evil that they wish upon others will come upon them also, because they are part of it. Being "no part of the world" is something they've interpreted much too literally, like so many other things. I guess they feel some sort of miraculous bubble of invincibility will shield the faithful from all the horrible things God will supposedly do to the rest of humanity, but how is that any different than believing God will rapture you away from the burning inferno of God's judgment, as some others do?

  Oh, and no doubt, the rise in inactivity and disinterest, and outright apostasy!oh horrors will be intepreted also according to their own convenient beliefs, for that is one of their great talents, adjusting reality to suit the changing situation, rather than changing to suit any sort of reality. Another defining characteristic of the cult mentality, of course. Do you drink the koolaid...or does the koolaid drink YOU? LOL

  I think someone once said, Any belief that seems ludicruus is one YOU don't believe in. They despise other faiths for "irrational" beliefs and have so many of their own. It's amazing their heads don't explode from the conflict, but of course, people are capable of doing that...believing the most insane crap and still managing to walk around fairly functional.

  I digress as usual. My brain seems to function entirely without benefit of organization. LOL
• 

  not a captive

  I found this place two weeks ago. Not only has it the only safe place to say the things on my heart but I suspect it also saved me from leaving a post that could have hurt me or others down the line--because it disappeared along with the initial topic. Thanks for watching out for us when we are so vulnerable.

  I never had read any contrary-to-the-WTS stuff. My departure was because the Society actually has pre-empted Jesus as our Leader and doesn't let us read and thing about the scriptures on our own. And I did realize, and told the brothers, that even if my reading and understanding of the Bible could be shot full of misunderstanding that was on MY lookout. I felt an increasing sadness at every Memorial because it was the most empty meeting of the year. The last one was the worst because the brother who told me in a formal meeting that I must teach the version of the WTS literature even if it ran contrary to the Bible----he gave the talk for the Memorial.

  Even though I am glad to get out, it makes me sad that I have no way to talk to my friends to warn them away from this sink hole of life. They are getting old too. But it is sad to live a lie even if you aren't the one who made it up. Maybe it's worse to live a lie that someone else made up for you.

  Anyway. Thank you for being a safe haven. May I say "God bless you?"

  That is what is on my mind and heart.
• 

  OUTLAW

  Lady Lee..

  Good thread!..

  Gawd!..

  Do I ever remember the early days of JWD/JWN..LOL!!..

  Some of the Flame Wars,were frigg`in Legendary..

  Trolls were a serious problem,most were shot on sight..LOL!!

  JWD/JWN has grown and Matured.....I like what JWD/JWN has become..

  ............................... ...OUTLAW
• 

  Lady Lee

  mindmelda

  I digress as usual. My brain seems to function entirely without benefit of organization. LOL

  it's called free thinking and it is great

  not a captive

  I am so glad you listened to that voice in your head that said "This is not right!"

  Your post reminds me that there has been a natural progression of interest by those who leave. And it rightly parrallels the way this board has developed. In the beginning posters came from another board H2O. Some just needed a new palce to discuss things. Simon who started the board was still a JW but he had a need to talk about the theology, the mistakes, like many of the people who came with him. Most left the organiztion because of these errors and they came here to talk about it.

  When the scandals came out many people were leaving the organization not so much about the teachings anymore but because of the cover-ups, lies, and hypocracy. Sexual abuse survivors and their families came here by the dozens seeking some kind of support for the way the WTS mishandled the abuse.

  Then there was a slight shift. We were seeing people who had experienced other forms of abuse, spousal, unwarranted attacks on some people leading to being DFed while others who had done the same thing with them got off, cases of alcoholism that were hidden, and a general exhaustion due to the lack of love shown in the org. people were tired of the persistent "do more" philosophy of the WTS Do more, give more, more more more. And all the while isolating the JWs from the real world, controlling every aspect of their lives. Not that the WTS didn't always do that but people had hit their tipping points and had enough.

  All of the above still come here. Those topics are still discussed. Support is still offered. But there has been a growing need for the recreation banter that most JWs wound up feeling guilty about or that was forbiddeen. What? go to a movie? Go to a ball game? Go on vacation? Buy a house? Why aren't you out in service? Or attnding all the meetings? or just doing more, reaching out?

  Burnout. A lot of people were just fed up and burnt out and needed to sit back and learn to be human again.
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  Gayle

  Wow, Lady Lee, thank you for this report! It seems as many members having gone through these stages, many are staying and welcoming new ones. The long-time members know how to relate and remember how they processed and got through and survived the destructive, negative world of JWism. Hopefully, more new ones, thus, can identify and get through these phases a little more quickly and positively now-a-days. Having ones to openly talk with has a big key impact for success.

  Many on quitting or leaving JWs have been stuck in a type of "limbo," not happy with the JW life, but still not truly investigating the full facts and history of JWs so as to truly unravel 'completely' from JW thinking. As the ex-JWs, grow independently, their voices of experience and confidence, will become more prominent and stronger in the Internet, books and other media worldwide.

  Our story must be told!!