FASCINATING debate: do we actually know what JESUS taught at all??

by Terry 34 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  Mall Cop

  Now I'm really confused and here is why. According to opposing historians and scholars, Jesus never existed, Jesus did exist. Here the debates are establishing historically and theologically that Jesus did exist.

  The debates become mute if in fact Jesus as is debated here never actually existed.

  Historians vs. Theologians. Science vs. beliefs.

  If we believe Jesus existed according to the Bible and history out side the Bible, then we have to choose who has the better augument in this debate.

  Our belief system will hold sway here. It is one thing to prove that Jesus lived in a certain period of time and another to prove what is written about him. What he taught and his coming back to life after he died.

  Wherer is GOD in this discussion/

  Blueblades
• 

  Heaven

  When you make a copy ... of a copy... of a copy... you're not going to get anything like the original!

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRtVMLwh6mY
• 

  Terry

  Now I'm really confused and here is why. According to opposing historians and scholars, Jesus never existed, Jesus did exist. Here the debates are establishing historically and theologically that Jesus did exist.

  The debates become mute if in fact Jesus as is debated here never actually existed.

  Bart Ehrman clearly states emphatically that the actual exisence of Jesus is not in question. It is the clarity of the transmission of facts

  ABOUT him and his teaching which is in contention.

  If you go through all the debates Ehrman leaves no doubt about an actual Jesus as a man in a time and place heard by others as well as seen.
• 

  lilyflor

  thanks for the post, i will definitely watch the whole debate.
• 

  Terry
• 

  PSacramento

  Imagine going into a nest of rabid Evangelicals and telling them their most devout belief is a construction of matchsticks!

  He seemed to have been received well, I guess some christians aren't militant, LOL !

  I recall Bruce Metzger saying, and I am paraphrasing, " Are there errors and issues and inconsistencies in the NT?, yes, of course.

  Do they matter for the core beliefs of Christianity? No, of course not."

  I know that Bart mentions that "ALL" the teachers and scholars agree there are errors and such and that he is not the only one, but that doesn't mean that they are more for Bart's view than for Bruce's view above.
• 

  mindmelda

  I've always thought it interesting, without making any judgment on it either way, that million worship and adore a man who apparently only a few hundred people might have seen, a few people wrote about, and only one or two actual historians hinted might exist.

  I mean, either Christianity started out so small and localized that no one gave a damn about it enough to write it up, or Jesus was just pretty much made up out of folk stories containing a lot of speculation about the nature of the expected Messiah or a compilation of several individuals who were teaching a radical form of Judaism at the time.

  I think if Jesus hadn't been written about then, we'd have invented him sooner or later. The Messiah is our ultimate hero myth, and god knows we need our heroes.

  I can actually appreciate Christ and his teachings as present without really having to believe he existed as written, which is one of the nice things about being a universalist. I don't have to believe what is unproven to get benefit out of it. Believing in what Christ taught isn't that hard, living it is, but believing that peace is good, brotherhood is good, don't be a hypocrite, love one another...all good.
• 

  cyberjesus

  Mindmelda: Do you have to believe on those beliefs to actually do them? Why do we need a Christ or a God to do love one another? Why dont you become your own messiah and create your own set of rules and guidelines that will lead to a better world?

  If we need to believe in something then we can become our own Gods with our own version and do good. :-)
• 

  Terry

  I often wonder just how callow people were intellectually in the 1st Century Jerusalem.

  How naive were they?

  How gullible?

  Was there any kind of skepticism among the common folk? The illiterate?

  How educated could illiterate people be when they had to rely always on things they heard from other people?

  I once read that it was mainly women who spread the Gospel of Jesus the most because he was the first person who generated

  a belief system based on non-violence, love and compassion.

  The wives of rulers often converted them because these christianized women were more submissive and less ambitious than their other wives.

  Dunno. Just wondering.........
• 

  thetrueone

  In context to the era of human history, perhaps the Jesus god gave a more balanced humanistic viewpoint into the spiritual world

  for that particular ancient civilization, a needed resolve from past gods who were mostly violent and inhumane.

  One thing can be certain the written gospels have been fumbled around with in different hands for centuries,

  a different perspective, something that most devoted Christians never really stop to consider including JWS.