New Light On Blood

by freeman 16 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  freeman

  Earnest,
  Sorry you did not find the passages about soaking meat in cold water or salting but this is what the Bible, the real Bible as in the Torah says to do. Rightfully you would find this some place around Leviticus 11 and Duet 14 in an English Bible. The Jews did not just start doing this, it was part of the Torah; it has been done this way for thousands of years and was being done when the blood prohibition was written in ACTS. This is all part of what they would call “shechita”, the proper or correct way of preparation within the Jewish dietary law.
  
  I would suggest you try a better translation then what you are currently using. Perhaps in your translation it may say “running water” or “babbling water”, which means cold. To the best of my knowledge, all known running water in Israel at the time the Torah was written were cold. The use of the Talmud is also important as this carries the oral tradition of the law which was every bit as important in Jewish life back when ACTS was written. If you recall Jesus chastised the Pharisees for nullifying the written word, the Torah, with the oral tradition, (expressed in the Talmud but misused by the Pharisees). One should not overshadow the other, one is the practical explanation of the other used in daily life

  Freeman
• 

  Earnest

  Freeman,

  Thank you for the additional information you provided about soaking meat in cold water and salting it to draw out all traces of blood. You suggested that the Torah, the five books of Moses, contains these instructions and specifically mentioned "some place around Leviticus 11 and Duet 14 in an English Bible". Neither of these chapters make any reference to blood at all but there is reference to removing the blood elsewhere in these two books.

  You suggested that I should try a better translation to that which I am currently using so I have checked up the relevant scriptures in the NIV Interlinear Hebrew-English Old Testament which I use for study purposes.

  Leviticus 17:13,14 (NIV):
  

  "Any Israelite or any alien living
  "and-man any from-sons-of Israel or-from the-alien the-one-living

  among you who hunts any animal or bird that may be eaten
  among-them who he-hunts animal wild or bird that he-may-be-eaten

  must drain out the blood and cover it with earth,
  then-he-must-drain blood-of-him and-he-must-cover-him with-the-earth

  because the life of every creature is its blood.
  for life-of every-of creature blood-of-him in-life-of-him he

  That is why I have said to the Israelites,
  so-I-said to-sons-of Israel

  'You must not eat the blood of any creature, because the life
  blood-of any-of creature not you-must-eat for life-of

  of every creature is its blood; anyone who eats it
  every-of creature blood-of-him she all-of ones-eating-him

  must be cut off.'"
  he-must-be-cut-off"

  Deuteronomy 12:16,23,24 (NIV):
  

  "But you must not eat the blood; pour it out on the ground
  "but the-blood not you-must-eat on the-ground you-pour-him

  like water."
  like-the-waters"

  "But be sure you do not eat the blood, because the blood is the life,
  "but be-sure! not to-eat the-blood for the-blood he the-life

  and you must not eat the life with the meat. You must not eat the
  and-not you-must-eat the-life with the-meat not you-must-eat-him

  blood; pour it out on the ground like water."
  on the-ground you-pour-him like-the-waters"

  Deuteronomy 15:23 (NIV):
  

  "But you must not eat the blood; pour it out on the ground
  "but blood-of-him not you-eat on the-ground you-pour-out-him

  like water."
  like-the-waters"

  As you see quite clearly, these scriptures refer to "draining out the blood" and "pouring it out like water". There is no reference at all to soaking it in cold water or salting it to remove every trace of blood, let alone any suggestion that we must remove the veins and arteries.

  You make reference to the Talmud, the oral tradition of the Law, and it is possible that this is where you get your ideas about soaking the meat. There are two talmuds, the Jerusalem Talmud and the Babylonian Talmud and a lot of other material besides. I was not able to find a passage that fits your description so you will need to cite chapter and verse so we can consider whether it is even relevant. You see, while the talmud does contain oral tradition it is not necessarily binding as it will often just be a commentary on what various rabbis say about a passage of scripture. Jesus certainly didn't feel bound by oral tradition.

  So while the suggestion you made was food for thought, when it came to biting the bullet there was not much to chew on.

  Earnest

  "Beware the Jub-jub bird and shun the frumious bandersnatch." - Rev. Charles Dodgson
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  Sam Beli

  Hello Thirdson,

  You said: “JWs eat blood in copious amounts, ever look at what comes out of ground beef?”

  Is that really blood, or is much of it extra cellular fluid containing myoglobin?

  Sam Beli

  I have seen all the works which have been done under the sun, and behold, all is vanity and striving after wind. What is crooked cannot be straightened and what is lacking cannot be counted. Solomon
• 

  AlanF

  The fact that Jehovah's Witnesses teach that the Mosaic Law gives principles for Christians to follow, and that the Law did not require the complete elimination of blood from meat before eating it, presents a difficult problem for their overall teachings on blood.

  For one thing, the fact that normal meat contains a large amount of blood proves that the basic idea in the Law was not specifically to avoid eating blood at all, but to avoid eating blood that was separated from the animal. Things become a bit muddled when we combine this notion with what Genesis 9:4 says, which according to the JWs is part of the Noachian Law and forbids all mankind from eating 'flesh along with its soul -- its blood'. According to this scripture it was not forbidden to eat meat, and it was not forbidden to eat blood -- only meat that had blood left in it. But if the Law did not forbid eating blood left over in the meat, and the Law incorporated the provisions of the Noachian Law, there would appear to be a contradiction. However, this is easily cleared up by considering Deuteronomy 14:21, which clearly states that a Jew could sell a dead carcass containing blood to a non-Jew. Now, it appears unthinkable that God would tell one of his "covenant people" to do something that would facilitate someone else to break his Noachian Law. If we accept that, then the meaning of Genesis 9:4 becomes clear: Since God specifically allowed that non-Jews could eat unbled meat in Deut. 14:21, then the Noachian Law could not mean that blood left over in unbled carcasses could not be eaten. The consistent interpretation of Gen. 9:4 is therefore that someone who kills an animal for food must bleed the animal so that it dies, and its blood is spilled, and this in symbol of respect for the Giver of Life. Again, the point is not about not eating blood, but about showing respect for life and its Giver.

  When these notions are applied to the claim of Jehovah's Witnesses that Genesis 9:4 implicitly forbids taking a blood transfusion, it is easy to see that the scripture is improperly being used to support this doctrine.

  AlanF
• 

  AlanF

  Sam Beli, all red meat contains both myoglobin and hemoglobin left in the blood that doesn't bleed out when the animal is killed. The capillaries contain a great deal of blood, and only the blood from the larger veins and arteries bleeds out.

  AlanF
• 

  bluesapphire

  Earnest, the bible doesn't tell you to wipe your ass either, does that mean you don't do it?
• 

  Earnest

  bluesapphire, I think there is a biblical principle regarding cleanliness at Deuteronomy 23:10-13:
  

  "In case there happens to be in you a man who does not continue clean, because of a pollution that occurs at night, he must also go outside the camp. He may not come into the midst of the camp. And it must occur that at the falling of evening he should wash with water, and at the setting of the sun he may come into the midst of the camp. And a private place should be at your service outside the camp, and you must go out there. And a peg should be at your service along with your implements, and it must occur that when you squat outside, you must also dig a hole with it and turn and cover your excrement."

  Jesus also made reference to excrement when he said, at Matthew 15:17, that "everything entering into the mouth passes along into the intestines and is discharged into the sewer". And his point was that it is not what enters into his mouth that defiles a man; but it is what proceeds out of his mouth that defiles a man. Please make a point of keeping both orifices clean.

  Earnest

  "Beware the Jub-jub bird and shun the frumious bandersnatch." - Rev. Charles Dodgson