I agree with S&R, knowing it's bullshit and not caring is a bullshit attitude and a cop-out.
Ultimately it just contributes to the supporting of a bullshit religion.
The Secret is out....but nobody cares
by MrTheocratic 104 Replies latest jw experiences
-
-
Oubliette
If you don't agree with the leadership of a group--any group, religious or otherwise--then why stay?
-
Oubliette
NEJ said, "A number of my still-in contemporaries (now mostly in their 30s) have been leading double lives since adolescence yet they still go through the charade."
See. This is stupid. It's no way to live.
There is no good reason to do this. The ONLY reasons to live like this are fear and cowardice. Those may even be the same reason stated differently.
-
the comet
Welcome MrTheocratic! Your opening post describes witnesses in liberal, urban environments, which is exactly where I live. As someone who is still physically in, I can tell you, witnesses here don't know and don't care about doctrine. Sure we have a few zealots like you said but most are just social witnesses. So I totally see and agree with what you're saying. However I grew up in a rural, conservative environment, and witnesses there are completely different. When I go back to visit family, it's like going back in a time machine. The people there, for the most part, take the "truth" very seriously. -
freein2004
Mrtheocratic! Ha Ha! bless your mother! That is too funny.
I think that may be the case with many dubs but many are also still buying the WT crap. I know of a family from my old congregation who lost their father to cancer recently. He was at least 80. But the wife took it so so hard from what I hear. She and her hubby were not supposed to grow old in "this system".
Now my sister is having an extremely hard time dealing with the fact that we will lose our father to cancer shortly. All she talks about is paradise and how it is so close . And now she is researching alternative treatments to help save our father. I feel really bad for her. She must be struggling with doubts. I haven't made it any easier on her either. Recently we got into a heated discussion about the org and how the FDS are full of crap. That is basically what I told her. Deep down I really think she wonders if what I know could be true. During another discussion a few months back she actually told me not to call Bethel headquarters. And that If I want to have any questions answered I can call their elders. I guess she wants the comfort of her little world around her with her faith in the "new system" still in tact. But now my dad dying is really rocking her boat. She said it herself that she never thought she'd have to face losing a parent.
As annoyed and frustrated as I've been in the past when I'd hear her say, "the end is so close" & "it's just around the corner" I cannot help but really feel for her now.
What a sad and wasteful way to spend your life.
-
Theredeemer
Wow. It has been a while since I have posted here.
Read your observation MrTheocratic and I must say that you have hit the nail on the head.
So it has been almost three years since my wife and I went cold turkey. If you read my posts you can see some of the things we went through with ex friends and family. Well since then all of my family talks to me again, my aunt ( who was crying and depressed when we made our decision to leave) is associating with disfellowshipped friends, my mother in law has decided to stop going too, my father ( who said he doesn't even want to know our future children) and step mother expressed their doubts to us and acknowledged that we had very sound points as to why we left while promising to never put anything before our relationship and more and more Jdubs have ignored the counsel from elders to avoid us.
We have seen how so many young ones here are attending Universities. Many witnesses have used the term 'social club' when referring to how the younger generation views the religion.
Now, does this mean that the Watchtowers days of control are numbered? Of course not!
I will liken this to people in Cuba.
I was speaking to a woman from Cuba and she was telling me that the people here in the states care more about the situation in Cuba than the actual people living there ever do. She said that the people living there are happy. They don't really discuss anything political because they simple don't have a need to. They have other things to worry about. They feel like the government takes care of the things they need it to take care of and whatever changes the government may make they simple adjust and go with the flow. It is not that they live in fear, she said, they just "live". They are happy with whatever they got. They have a lot of freedom we here think they don't because it is advertised they don't. She said religion, for example, is a very big part of their lives over there and it has been for years. The only difference from here, she said, it that it is not advertised and it is kept completely out of politics. She even mentioned that they have many JWs out there and she said that they it seems like they want to get "beat" because they insist on "advertising" their religion but they are "nice people".
The government there has chosen over the years to ignore much of the 'law' breaking and the people have learned to ignore many 'liberties' they are denied. Give and take relationship. This is how the Communist Cuban government has survived for so long. Once in a while someone is thrown in prison for opening their mouth to much or for publicly going against the establishment. These "trouble makers" are made examples of and people take notice and move along. She mentioned how the government comes out on TV sometimes "all high and mighty" once in a while just to remind the people the "power" they hold. But all in all the people are content because this is all they know. I asked her if she is happier here than over there and she said "Yes. But, in the end, I traded one set of problems for another. Other than the nicer material things, the only other difference is here I can say "F Obama" and over there I'd be put in jail for it".
The org and its members (along with ex members) share the same relationship. The org knows it cannot survive if they don't ease up while at the same time advertising their control ( JW TV). They know that they must adjust to changing times or there will be revolt. The people in the KH have learned to drop the worrying about the end and all the theocratic BS and just live. As long as they don't bring too much attention and look for trouble and they can pretty much do whatever they want.
We (ex members) are more concerned over the issues than they will ever be.
In the end happiness can mean a billion different things to each individual. After all, isn't this the point of 'Life', to be happy?
-
snare&racket
Humans are awesome animals, decades in the JW's leave many with a warped view of fellow humans. I have confidence that the Internet, increasing defences for equality and knowledge, advances in human interaction etc will lead to much friction for the young unbaptised JW's and this will be the end for WT.
The world is getting better not worse, it's hard to claim otherwise.
The Internet is a ......huge...... game changer. I'm only in my 30's but when we wanted info on WT it was literally IMPOSSIBLE to get hold of when we were growing up there were books, bt I didn't know they existed, never mind getting hold of it. There was literally zero information accessible despite me secretly wanting to see it. Now they just have to ask the question, be it finance, corruption, doctrine, politics....
THIS IS HUGE and we are yet to appreciate the change this has made. Amazingly, the WT have just made a gigantic error also....out of their own need to provide online propaganda, they have made the Internet a legitimate place for JW's to tread. This is a recent change and it is significant!
-
OUTLAW
Many of the "friends" know about the failed prophesy and other scandals that are featured on this site, but they don't really care.
....................
..
-
violias
MT ( OP)
I guess your post "hit" me a bit different than a lot of others. I am a born in and my grandparents were jws too. Long family history during WW2 during some of the worst persecution of jws. I knew many sincere jws ( ande a lot of jerks too) who really believed the Org and it was often called "mother". I do not believe I lived under a rock. I went through 1975 as a young adult and it was finally this and the fallout at bethel and widespread apostate paranoia in the 80-90's that helped me leave ( at least physically). My family goes back to the time when Rutherford came in.
I found you to come across as a disrespectful of those before you who gave their lives for the Org and were true believers. They were not stupid. I met many like you before I left. Many of us called them "social jws". I knew and elder who converted just b/c of the social life and he thought it would be a good place to raise his kids. He did not believe most of it- he was there b/c of the social aspect.
In fact, the social jws were a large reason I started questioning the Org. So many of them got away with things that the true believers would never have done . Many should have been DF'd per the wts standards but got away with gross conduct due to being popular.
In short, you and those like you are one of the reasons I know the TATT,
but hey welcome to the board.
-
ToesUp
It's all a social club! It has become a competitive game! Back in the 80's people seemed to really care about others. There were "genuine" pioneers, that really wanted to be there. No bragging, they just did it. That no longer exists. It's all about what others SEE, nothing else.
Even some of the most uber JW's are putting their kids in college. They don't want there kids making the same mistakes they did.
No...people are not buying it anymore but they don't want to loose the only social status they have. They don't want to loose their families either. So sad. They just stay on the hamster wheel.
