can spirituality replace religion?

by make yourself 61 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  misocup

  That definition, by its very nature makes it impossible for one to know if the proof is a sighting.

  Agreed, I see your point. However, one need not have these experiences alone. I won't say any more about it, because it will cross into the old philosophical argument about how we can't prove each others existence.

  Can I prove that you exist? If I have others confirm it, do they really exist? and so on

  At some point, as you have experiences, as others confirm them or experience the same thing, you make up your mind as to whether they are delusions or not. If you are objective, and learn your own mind, and are honest with yourself, you should be able to trust yourself. Or end up in a padded cell, but then the padded cell might itself be an illusion.

  Either way, God or no God, receptor for energetic communication or result of evolutionary need for God, in the long run it doesn't matter.

  If you search and become comfortable with your "spirituality" and it makes you happy, great. If you decide that it's not worth the trouble and become an atheist, great. The outcome is the same either way, we die. If there is a God, it is impossible to tell what s/he wants from us, no rules. If there is no God it doesn't matter how you live your life, again no rules.

  No good, no bad. Those are human constructs.
• 

  streets76

  Don't give me "spiritual," it's meaningless. We are physical beings, without souls or spirits. We are flesh, bones, blood.

  When someone tells me they are "spiritual," I just assume they mean they see themselves are somehow better than those they define as "non-spiritual."

  Eat, drink, and be merry (read: copulate), for tomorrow (or the next day) you will die.

  The best replacement for religion is rational thinking.
• 

  Etude

  It’s amazing to find people with the intellectual cojones to admit some tough conclusions, namely that we are physical beings and not the result of some shadow that lives inside of us. Did I get that right from you misocup and streets76? That was not easy for me to admit. Yes, I’m a monist as well. And I was not attempting to justify “spirituality” as something more significant than being left-handed. By mapping it to the brain, it simply means it’s another function (though a higher one in the sense that it involves thought) like feeling pain or wanting sex.
  
  Misocup: You’re right about not crossing into the philosophical line of whether we exist or not. It kinda leads nowhere. But like the man said: “Cogito ergo sum”. That’s hard to argue with even if we can’t prove that anything else exists. So, I was presenting the idea that there’s a consistent commonality within our delusions of life, that poking around in the supposed part of the brain will consistently yield a common delusion. I had to make some basic assumptions. Otherwise, I would never have contributed to this thread and suggest that religion is one thing and spirituality (whatever it means and with all that it encompasses) is another. While I can’t say for sure that any of you exist or that I’m even writing this tidbit and not dreaming it, I must continue to continue to pretend.
  
  Etude.
• 

  Terry

  Misocup: You’re right about not crossing into the philosophical line of whether we exist or not. It kinda leads nowhere. But like the man said: “Cogito ergo sum”. That’s hard to argue with even if we can’t prove that anything else exists.

  Who are we posting to? Who reads our words? Who is arguing with whom IF WE DO NOT EXIST?

  Really now!
• 

  Etude

  Terry:
  
  The point is not that we (as individuals) don't exist. The problem is that if we embark on a way or means to prove with any degree of certainty that we do, we have a serious problem. I believe I exist. I just can't formally prove it. That's what the philosopher (Rene Descartes) brought up a few centuries ago. In spite of that, I go on and (in order to continue the argument and accept that you exists as well even if I can't prove it), I continue to exchange ideas with people so that I don't end up in that padded cell (even if it's imaginary) like misocup suggested. That's why I acknowledge that we have a brain and that it has something that may be responsible for what we term "spiritual" feelings. I realize that for some this amounts to a bunch of esoteric bullshit, but that’s the way of the world if we dare to keep asking the really tough questions, even about the nature of our own existence.
  
  Etude.
• 

  chickpea

  religion is the buzz kill for spirituality

  it separates the world into us and them....
• 

  Etude

  Hey Terry:

  At the risk of repeating myself repeating myself, I was browsing through my old posts and found a thread I started on the subject of the "G" spot. You posted some interesting comments. Check it out (http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/95534/1/Do-you-stimulate-your-G-spot). Looking back, it all still makes sense to me. But damn, can I go on and on and on judging from the lengths of my posts. I had a verbal hemorrage and I'm bleedding to this day.

  Etude.
• 

  streets76

  religion is the buzz kill for spirituality

  it separates the world into us and them...

  "Spirituality" separates us into those who claim to be spiritual, and those who do not. Seems to be meaningless to me, as I said previously, there is no spirit (or soul), just flesh, bones, and blood.

  "But, Mr. Streets76, I define the spirit as the 'spark of life'".

  Well, yes, the spark of life does separate us into us and them. Those with the spark of life are alive. Those without it are dead.
• 

  Etude

  Streets76:
  
  I guess you take “spirituality” to mean an affectation, like seeing ghosts or seeing auras around people’s heads. Since not everyone experiences that and spirituality falls in that realm, you really don't believe that there's is such a thing as spirituality in the first place. Well you are right and you are wrong. I'm not challenging your belief. But the thing is that, whether you're in one camp or the other depends on what your interpretation of spiritually is. In my case, spirituality appears to me to be a sensation that can give one a sense of wonder that fixates on things greater than everyday life. It could be as simple as the admiration I would have to see a small piece of nature, like the blazing colors of the bougainvilleas in my neighborhood or being overwhelmed with awe while attempting to conceive the vastness of space. So, I don’t think there’s anything mystical or super-terrestrial about spirituality. It’s just another function of the “flesh, bones and blood” you mentioned. So, you are right in a sense.
  
  Animals have the spark of life. But, there’s no indication that they have the peculiarity of not only self-awareness (with a few exceptions), but also of a “sense of other” that makes some want to reach to God. That’s the importance of the “G” Spot. A neurological pathology studied by Dr. Ramachandran involved a young man in his 20’s who experienced grand-mal seizures which disrupted the mechanisms which suppress or keep in check the “G” spot. The brain runs a delicate balance of chemicals. Consequently, for a period of time after the seizures the man felt he could walk on air and almost died when he tried to jump out of a window. In an overwhelming euphoria, he felt he understood everything and perceived all things at once. He felt as one with the universe. The man thought he was Jesus Christ or at times he was God himself, equipped with all the power and knowledge of everything. Under a cat scan, the “G” spot area lit up like a flare.
  
  
  It’s possible then to entertain the idea that people like Joan of Arc, Joseph Smith and yes maybe even the prophet Isaiah or the apostle John might have had similar conditions, since cannabis and LSD where not common in their time. I’m not trying to be sacrilegious and offend people who are still religious and can’t contemplate such possibilities. But the reality is that a good argument could be made for such visions as being the result of brain pathology for one reason or another. Bottom line is that we have a capacity that like any other bodily function (which includes the brain) may need some tending-to, perhaps some nurturing. And it also tells me that when it’s not working right you create groups like the JWs. When it’s cleverly manipulated, you end up with a bunch of “other sheep”.

  Etude.
• 

  oldflame

  Oh I think so very much so. I am a spiritual person and not religious. I don't have a problem with those who do go to church and I go myself once in awhile but I believe in what the scriptures say and it says this " One Faith ! One Baptism ! No where in the scriptures does it command us to go to church or a particular religion. It clearly say's One Faith. What is that Faith ? It is Faith is Christ and it is only through faith is Christ do we recieve the promise.

  I have always said Religion was created by man, Faith is created by the Holy Spirit