Why are all religions (including J.W.'s) afraid to perform the "Elijah test" recorded at 1 Kings 18:21-39?

by StoneWall 26 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  StoneWall

  upnorth

  yes I was initially talking about religion in general as regards this test, but heck it can even be adjusted to the

  individual believer if they so desire. If they can perform it without being a part of religion then thats even better.

  To further illustrate my point, you know how in the bible it talked about the magic practicing priests of Moses day

  turning their staff(Rods) into snakes after Aaron had done the same thing?

  Even if we buy into the argument that God isn't interferring in the affairs of man at this time, then why can't the priest

  of today do the same thing as the ones of old, since evidently it wasn't God who caused their rods to turn into snakes.

  Why is it every time that we hear that either God,Satan or a angel or demon did something back in the bible days,

  it can't be duplicated today? Talking about how many times would it have to be done to convince people, why waste

  all that time back then when only one time would work now for the whole world since we could all document it with

  our cameras, video recorders, and beam it worldwide with our satellites for the benefit of all.
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  upnorth

  I've heard stories of people saved from certain death by a miracle, and the person relating the event never reports the "saving part" of the event as God having helped them. They all say it, is, or was, or must have been an Angel and then they typically thank God.

  Would some event manipulated by an Angel suffice ?

  I don't think God has manipulated the spirit of man with mass display since the death of Christ.
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  not a captive

  Didn't Jesus say that "a wicked and adulterous generation asks for a miraculous sign! But none will be given it except the sign of the prophet Jonah."?
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  StoneWall

  Didn't Jesus say that "a wicked and adulterous generation asks for a miraculous sign!

  But none will be given it except the sign of the prophet Jonah."?

  Wow isn't that convenient.

  On the other side of that pendulum didn't doubting Thomas in John chapter 20 ask for proof that it was Jesus that

  had returned from the dead?

  John 20:25 [NWT] "Consequently the other disciples would say to him: “We have seen the Lord!” But he said to them:

  “Unless I see in his hands the print of the nails and stick my finger into the print of the nails and stick my hand into his

  side, I will certainly not believe." (end of quote)

  And then Jesus went on to show and give him the proof that it was really him. So then why should it be any different

  with others that want proof instead of just hearsay?
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  wannabefree

  About the miraculous signs referred to by Elswhere ... I have wondered about this and have asked a few over the years ... "do you think members of the FDS tried back in the beginning to do these things? I mean, wouldn't you think they would have at least tried?"

  And, I think some must have tried, but EVIDENTLY, it only applied to first century Christians.
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  civicsi00

  Are they afraid that the test may show their god to be sleeping as Elijah said of Baal?

  Actually, if the JW's ever get the balls to do something like this, it would play out like this:

  1. The GB would set up an altar of sorts and ask Babylon the Great to set up a similar altar elsewhere.

  2. After asking Babylon the Great to go first, Babylon goes up, prays and does whatever, but nothing happens.

  3. Afterwards the GB goes up, they give a solemn prayer, and wait for their God to burn the altar.

  4. After nothing happens, the GB then declare that it did indeed happen, only invisibly.

  5. All JW's then bow down to the GB and thank them for the sign that has been given to them.
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  not a captive

  Good question StoneWall. It seems (I say seems, because I am searching too. Or maybe you aren't searching?)Mark 9, Luke 9, Matthew 17 all relate a story of the demonized boy that the disciples are unable to help. The father of the boy asks help from Jesus and Jesus asks the man "do you have faith that I can do this?" The man says "Yes, but not enough. Help me out where I lack faith." Jesus heals the boy, the disciples ask about their failure to be effective. He tells them with some disgust (after all the boy's father was more honest than they were) that it is their lack of faith and prayer that holds them back. It seems that Jesus deals generously with us if we are honest about our situation in the faith department.

  Thomas may have been like Gideon who seemed to have a healthy dose of realism in his doubt also. I have wondered if the fleece with Gideon and the nail & spear wounds for Thomas were because they didn't want self-delusion to overtake them. I gather that where there is a measure of faith we can ask for more--and receive it. With no penalty. But if we are really cynical we may have to reflect on the matter before we receive an answer as in the case of Zachariah, John the Baptist's father.

  Just things I've wondered about also. Maeve
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  PSacramento

  Miracles and signs are irrelevant.

  IF those miracles and signs did happen as per the bible, it didn't make any real difference , did it?
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  not a captive

  Also, another point. Jesus said he wouldn't put God to a test gratuitously-- as when challenged to prove he was a son of God by throwing himself off a high place.
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  Terry

  Once you know how a magic trick is really performed it ceases to be mystifying and exciting.

  Man's awe with God is a direct result of the total vacuum of fact, perception and proof.

  Like abstract Art, God is something of a blank canvas we project onto.

  Imagination is more directly accessible by the emotions because it is not availabe to disproof or disconfirmations.