Hi Wobble, I'll try to find it this evening.................I may end up having to read all 7 Vol. to find it Aaaaahhh
WOW!! The Finished Mystery SCAN showing Jesus was WORSHIPPED and was THE GOD!!!
by Lady Liberty 30 Replies latest watchtower bible
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Deputy Dog
One of the very early WTs wrote much the same thing, and used the same verse along with verses in Hebrews to show Jesus was not an angel.
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peaches
thank you for the information....
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BabaYaga
Interesting. Bookmarked, thank you.
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GreyWolf
Some people here are confused. Evangelicals use the term "Deity" to mean that Jesus is the second person of the Trinity and therefore YHWH. No Bible Student ever held that belief. Bible Students, including Russell, held that Jesus in his preexistence was the Logos, the Archangel Michael, and a created god in the Arian sense. But because he had been raised to the position of representative of God the Father as YHWH's king, he could be and was (and is) worshiped by Bible Students. Really, Jesus continued to be worshiped by JWs until the Knorr/Franz era. Freddie probably read the early church Father Origen and decided that Jesus shouldn't be worshiped. (The early Arians in the fourth century worshiped Jesus.)
The Finished Mystery contains many "gems." In fact, some of the ideas in it are nuttier than the average fruit cake. Interestingly, the 1917 edition prophesied that the churches would fall in the autumn of that year. When they didn't, the next edition indicated that they would fall in 1918. This was discussed in court with Clayton Woodworth when Rutherford and company were charged with violating the Espionage Act. It can be read in the transcript of record of the United States v. Rutherford et al. What is so surprising is that the U.S. government--like the Nazis later--took them so seriously when they could have dismissed them as a small, rather goofy movement. But then, the Pentecostals were in the same boat at the time as conscientious objectors and were being attacked by evangelist Billy Sunday. But then too, the American public was pretty goofy during World War I as well, something that has continued from time to time and seems rather evident right now.
A couple of other points: There is a picture of a penny in the front of the Finished Mystery. The reason for this was that the book was held to be the penny of Jesus' parable, and it was suggested that Rutherford was the "good man" who gave the penny. When Rutherford expelled the four directors whio took a stand against him and drove them from Bethel in July 1917, Woodworth and the Society began telling the lie that the reason the four directors were dismissed (probably quite illegally) is that they objected to the publication of the Finished Mystery. Interestingly, even the Proclaimers book still teaches that lie despite the fact that Rutherford while under oath in court stated that the Finished Mystery had nothing to do with the directors' dismissal.
While many Bible Students who broke with Rutherford did not accept the Finished Mystery, some did. For example, the Standfasters who gathered in Oregon, Washington, and British Columbia held fast to the Finished Mystery. They only broke with the Society when Rutherford tried to compromise with the U.S. government by joining in a national day of prayer and by saying it was okay to buy Liberty Bonds for the War. The Standfasters had a magazine called "Old Corn Gems," which is as dull as dishwater. Eventually, they tried to set up a commune on Vancouver Island and built a fish factory. But they fell apart when they nearly starved. One group that grew out of the Standfasters was called the Elijah Voice Society. It was the first group of Bible Students to make a fuss about the flag salute. Rutherford evidently took the idea that saluting the flag was wrong from them.
GreyWolf
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BluesBrother
Google books has "The Finished Mystery" I don't know if this will really link , but try -
There appears to be no qualifying remarks , so yes they applied this verse to Jesus even though it said God (Hallelujah or Praise Jah in the NT)
They cited Rev 5.8 which refers to "fell down before The Lamb" (NT) My Revelation Climax book 1988 version says that this is "an acknowledgement of his authority" so presumably not considered worship..
If you challenged a J W with this I am sure that they would be unmoved though.....but it is interesting...
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Leolaia
GreyWolf....Great post!!
But then too, the American public was pretty goofy during World War I as well
I recall reading a WWI-era newspaper article about a US-born woman in the conundrum of having to choose between divorcing her unnaturalized German husband to retain her residency or sticking with her husband and facing deportation.
The Standfasters had a magazine called "Old Corn Gems," which is as dull as dishwater.
Maybe but I think I'd find it fascinating reading. After all, I find the so-and-so begat so-and-so lists in the Bible fascinating. :)
One group that grew out of the Standfasters was called the Elijah Voice Society. It was the first group of Bible Students to make a fuss about the flag salute. Rutherford evidently took the idea that saluting the flag was wrong from them.
I have a newspaper article from the 1920s about one such group, probably related to that specific one, which made a big issue of it in Colorado. They were also called the "Jehovists" or something like that. So this group was ahead of its time anticipating Rutherford's later (1) naming of his group after "Jehovah" and (2) refusing to salute the flag.
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cantleave
I really must learn more about the splinter groups of the IBS.
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designs
Wobble- haven't found the quote I was looking for, sorry. Needless to say the Bible Students, in all of their various Fellowships, are much more comfortable talking about Jesus in personal terms than we knew as Witnesses. The Fellowships I have attended over the years have all had very intimate discussions on Jesus. One group's Editor, the Christian Millennial Fellowship, Elmer Weeks gave one of the best 'He Is Risen' talks I have ever heard at their Western Believers Conference.
Very sweet and gentle souls.
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mindmelda
This all reminds me of what practicing Mormons have said to me about the supposedly "inspired" work of Brigham Young, "The Pearl of Great Price" which contains a significant amount of LDS nuttiness, particularly about Blacks, Indians and Women. Just typical racist and sexist BS that is totally unacceptable now to most people, but typical of 19th century thinking among some people.
They tend to dismiss it...even though at one time it was definitely part of LDS practice and doctrine. I had one tell me, "I try to forget we have that particular book from the prophets." LOL
Well, at least the LDS religion comes right out and declares the Twelve as latter day prophets. Witnesses dance around that a little, but still, the GB is no different than the Twelve in Mormonism, in practical terms. The are the Witnesses "latter day prophets", no doubt about it. They're just squeamish about outright usage of terms that make them seem in competition with the original twelve apostles, even though it's essentially performing the same function in their version of Christianity.