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Finish the job the Jehovah's Witnesses started on you!
by Terry 37 Replies latest jw friends
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WTWizard
I believe that the whole Original Sin doctrine is a scam. The whole foundation of Christianity relies on teaching that we all deserve damnation, and that through Christ's death, we have the chance of salvation. Then, they tell us that, in order to benefit from this provision, we need to abide by tons of rules that really are nothing more than means of spreading guilt through the population. Guilt, not about doing things that harm society, but about natural things. This is the major reason why sex is so "dirty"--the Christian church (along with Muslim, Hindu, and most of the other major religions) have dirtified this natural activity.
To me, this is a problem that God Himself created. He wants us under His Tyranny, and will do anything to ensure that end. Thinking for yourself would get you a better possible outcome (assuming that Baghead Jehovah keeps His damn paws off it), and therefore is "immoral". Satan saw God's tyranny and tried to free us from it. Of course, God wouldn't have that. So He set up the "ransom sacrifice" arrangement to "redeem" us from this--itself a complete scam.
This "ransom sacrifice" never actually came; nor will it. Instead, it is a means of dangling deliverance under the conditions of obedience and feeling guilty about normal activities. God Himself actually creates the distress that He "plans" to deliver us from, just so He can have something to "deliver" us from. Notably, He is never going to actually do that; that would terminate His scams.
As for Jesus, he was nothing more than the second Satan. Jesus actually tried to train people to be their own Gods, just as Satan did. Jesus died trying to set us free from God's scams. And then God had another scam to twist Jesus' teachings: Confuse Paul into thinking there are a bunch of rules needed to benefit from Jesus, and then add those rules to the Bible. Then, after enough time has passed so accurate accounts are gone, pick and choose what you want to fit this Original Sin scam, and put those into the Bible. For best results, twist some of the remaining scriptures around a bit. And that's what became our Unholy Bible. In this, we have Jesus dying to fulfill God's original promise (which He actually welshed on), and a bunch of rules that we must abide by to benefit. As Jesus was using "God" as a metaphor to drive a wedge between people and the real Jehovah (who was suppressing them), it was easy to twist that around to make our "loving God" scam more believable.
Who says we are not going to be delivered by God? How long was our deliverance supposedly imminent, within the next century or less? I have heard from worldly sources that the second coming was through the 1980s, then through the 1990s, then Y2K, then 2008, and now 2012. They have done this crap through the 1800s as well, and I can only imagine that it has been going through the past 2,000 years. People have been expecting the end (and our deliverance) to come ever since Paul was used by Jehovah to fxxx up Jesus' teachings, and it has not come. What the Bible (and Jesus) was actually telling the end was coming, was the end of the Jewish system in 70 AD. Further than that, nothing but a super whopper of a scam.
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cyberjesus
I did. It wasn't easy. I wanted the idea of a paradise on earth and living forever. Well at least I thought I did. Researching the bible was a scary thing to do because It meant opening a can of worms.
But I just didnt wanted to be lied to anymore by anyone. When my mind left the Cult I was still a believer of the bible. And I must admit I was afraid of the atheists in this forum or the web. I couldnt understand why they went to the other extreme. But I knew they were intelligent. They had to be searching for knowledge and the search for knowledge was more important than the comfortability of faith.
I think most Ex-cult members that turn to another religion do so because their love for what the knew is so strong that fear the unknown.
To be comfortable with the unknown is the beauty of being a knowledge seeker.
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The Finger
The picture that "Outlaw" posted is how I felt for many years as a witness. I felt my religion was like the "terminator" it never stopped. I felt the elders were like the Pharisees, they were often hypocrites and they liked the power they had. I had a discussion with my father whom had served as an elder for some years. He was critical of some elders who stood like vultures waiting to descend on a young brother who had marital problems, they wanted to disfellowship him rather than help him. One who had served as a presiding overseer stated such before they they had met to hear the problem. My discussion led to that my father as an elder had shown similar tendencies. Whereas Jesus washed the feet of the disciples and showed humility he went to those who were the tax collectors and the prostitutes.
Before I left the JW's I had the opportunity to read Ray Franz books but declined. I didn't want to be influenced by them in my decision. The 2nd one I read on Christian Freedom I really enjoyed and gradually started to see a freedom in Christ. I don't find Christianity restrictive. I find hope. I find a kindness in Christ. I find answers as best as I can find.
I believe in God. I cannot imagine anything coming from complete nothingness. There would be no place for anything to exist in. God seems the best solution to me. I have had supernatural trouble. I know how it started and I know how it finished. Maybe that's why I don't totally dismiss the witnesses.
"Theophilus of Antioch once put it like this in a debate with some disputants: "If you say, 'show me your God,' I should like to answer you, 'show me the man who is in you'...For God is percieved by men who are capable of seeing him, who have the eyes of their spirit open... Man's soul must be as pure as a shining mirror" (Ad Autolycum, 1, 2, 7ff) Jesus of Nazareth, 2007 Joseph Ratzinger Pope Benedict XVI.
If we had video footage of Christ would it make you a believer. The fact that God is seen by the heart, to me makes him more real. (Matt 5:8)
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TMS
Terry,
None of us have totally detoxified including you. Even if we feel purged of JW teaching, we hold on to JW style, JW methodology. We may still even want to share "truth" with others. Do you ever wake up at night Terry and find yourself fighting the fine fight, reliving your entire JW life, saying things you wished you had said and being victimized all over again? You want to control that dream Terry like John Wayne controlled a movie script, but your subconscious version of reality isn't all that flattering either.
I'm still waiting for someone to answer the words some writer put into the mouth of Pontius Pilate: "What is truth?"
tms
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moshe
The truth is that brain chemicals make us feel good or bad. We gravitate towards the thoughts that make the brain happy. JWism works for awhile and then reality shuts off the happy thoughts, so the search is on for a new set of ideas to turn the happy chemicals back on.
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wobble
Beer must be full of Happychem (TM) what say you Outlaw ?
It is amazing how many on here say they are happier now than they have ever been, doesn't say much for the JW's does it ?
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zoiks
In the early stages of my mental exit, I was stuck in the false dilemma, "If JWs don't have the truth, then no one does!" You're right, Terry - they pick at other versions of Christianity, exposing some ugly bits, and then quickly force the conclusion that THIS must be the truth, since those others are wrong. It's a part of creating a phobia of the outside world - everything that is outside is false, dark, ugly. And pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!
After lots of study, including reading ISoCF and looking at JWFacts.com, I realized that the Witnesses didn't have the Christianity thing right, either. So I dug and dug and dug, eventually realizing that no Christians have Christianity right, because there is no "right" Christianity.
Why? Because it is either based on traditions of men, or it is based on the bible- which is also traditions of men; or a little of both.
The job is finished.
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Terry
I believe that the whole Original Sin doctrine is a scam.
If it weren't for Augustine and Aquinas we wouldn't have most of our christian doctrines.
What these men did perpetuated Christianity through the enlightenment because they treated scripture as though it were data and
tried to extract a LOGICAL conclusion.
Augustine INVENTED original sin as an explanation.
Until you read the actual teachings of Augustine you can't really appreciate how completely F'd up an intelligent man in the grip of religious delusion can be.
These people, just like our Governing Body, simply pulled things out of their ass and passed it off as Divine. The Church Fathers were only too
happy to have "great" thinkers fueling the forward motion of christian thought.
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Terry
I believe in God. I cannot imagine anything coming from complete nothingness. There would be no place for anything to exist in. God seems the best solution to me.
You have absolutely no problem with a God who came from nothingness?
You have absolutely no problem with a God PRE-CREATION just floating around with nothing to react with for Aeons of non-time?
This doesn't bother you?
The "place" where things exist is our Universe. This Universe is the only universe. (See the "uni" in there?)
The Universe has always existed. That troubles you.
God has always existed. That doesn't........
What you are seeking is emotional comfort rather than logic, seems to me.
Weird.