The meeting did not go well. (page 12)

SixofNine

It's humorous to me that the guy on speakerphone used the term "church priest". I'm guessing the guy has just gotten used to the term from having to deal with the legalities of clergy privlege so much lately. JW's would never use that term to describe themselves amongst their own.

As far as people seeing this as an abuse of power, I'm clueless. They had an argument, things got heated. That will happen to just about any JW that is confronted with hard questions w/o a way to run out on the argument. Three elders w/no where to run, it's no surprise that one of them went Old Testament (JEHOVAH OF ARMIES...lol) on these fine people.

That Danni and her partner feel strongly about equality for women, protecting children, etc., well, that should be no surprise. If hawkaw had done the same thing, and things had gotten heated, would you all have the same criticism?

Satanus

Danni

Up till today i didn't notice or read your threads. I checked one today, and i was hooked. I read all seven.

I was a jw for 30 yrs, up to 1996, when they turfed me out, my only crime - asking questions. Anyway, i don't think you and you partner did anything wrong. I was cheering while i was reading. On the other hand, the wt is very powerful, and very concerned about its image. It has about 100 lawyers on hand in new york. I would suggest, from here on out, that you and your partner cover your butts. Make 3 copies of whatever and store in 3 separate safe places, minimum. Maybe i sound like a chicken shit, but sometimes rightness can be overridden. Jws are HAPPY to lie or sacrifice themselves in any way possible for the good of their org. Those elders that you posed your questions to probably feel and are treated like heros now. The guy who had the chest pains was probably happy at the thought of dying there in the confrontation, because it would have guaranteed his ticket to paradise. When i was a jw, i would have gladly taken a bullet for their interests. And one other thing, tell yardif to stop barking and chew his bone. ha ha Hear that friday?

SS

borgfree

Some of you seem to have sympathy for those elders and say that they were intimadated, I think you must not have ever been in a committee meeting with the elders aiming their spiritual cannons at you.

I have no empathy for them. If you have never felt the rath of a body of elders I suggest you try picketing a convention this summer or even try demonstrating at the kingdom hall this memorial.

I would guess by some of the comments here that some would be up in arms if the Watchtower Society lost some or all of their freedoms of religion. Think, did they give you or anyone else freedom of religion anywhere in the world?

I would have loved to see a committee ( that's what it apparently was (3 elders)) have to face what they dish out to helpless Watchtower peons.

I will take my place on the side of all of the ones here congratulating Danni and Darryl. Thanks guys!

"Without knowledge there can be no genuine faith--only superstition on the one hand or speculation on the other" Robert Banks

Danni

Mr. Bowen, if you are reading this i need another email I cannot send my letters through it keeps coming back. I need you to see my letter.Let me know what's going on or send another email address .

Nathan Natas

Spelled "Yadirf" pronounced "Elohssa".

teejay

Dave,

I think I have somehow given you the wrong impression or you've been misreading. As I suspected, in addition to what's been posted here, you have additional information. You said:

I do have a little more information about what is going on in regard to this whole situation than you do. Danni and I have been emailing each other since her very first post. If that bothers you I am sorry.

Why would I have a problem that you have information I don't have? I thought it was a weird comment that it might bother me or you felt the need to apologize. We (you and I) are not in competition here with the winner being the one with the most information. I'm not trying to argue with you. I will say for the third time... without knowing everything you know... without having read every single post of Danni's since her arrival, I believe what Danni posted here. Every word. That isn't the issue. Never has been.

Without reading anymore than what I've read already, here's what happened:

Danni and her partner, with the full knowledge of her superiors and at the local cong's invitation, went to the KH were they met three elders for the purpose of investigating the pedophile policy. Another WT rep was on the speakerphone. All the Witnesses knew that she and her companion that morning were cops although they came with street clothes on. She arrived and started asking questions.

"Who was setting up whom?" Let's say that Danni was totally innocent—had no idea of what the elders might say or do—and that the elders/WT were setting up the cops. (I see why you called it a dog and pony show.)

At this point I must ask myself: do the elders Johnson, Williams and Park know the Wt policy. Let's say, "yes, they all do and want to cover it up." What would that make them personally? As far as I'm concerned, that would make them evil. Personally.

That would explain the virtual heart attack one of the elders damn-near suffered. It dawned on him that he was forced to defend a heinous policy that was being brought to light. Defenses came up... got stronger. Push damn-near came to shove and a melee almost broke out. They took it outside. More words were said until nothing else was said.

The JWs went back in to have the meeting. Danni and Darryl left.

And Danni accomplished?

Peace,
tj

Danni

teejay: And Danni accomplished?

Teejay, I know I know I didn't accomplished what I set out to do, but maybe there was a child molester there in the crowd and he/she now knows they will not walk away so easy anymore from this kind of crime. Maybe the Elders will now tell the victims to go to the police just because they don't want other police officers visitng them. You can believe the next time it will be officers in their uniforms.

Or maybe nothing will take place in there as far as the people losing their fear of telling on molesters. I don't know.. I am sure they are going to say whatever it takes to make us look bad. They will make our visit out to be something more than it was.
Maybe nothing was accomplished but if that's true it's not because i didn't try to make a difference. I feel good about that inspite of how others feel about me.

beepers

Danni-

I think what you did took a great deal of courage. I know that I would never have been able to do it. My hat goes off to you and your partner.

Amy

refiners fire

What theyve accomplished is "One more pebble on the pile".
The org was bothered enough to sneak in a speaker box legal expert.
Keep adding pebbles. The scales may yet tip.
Dannii, nothing personal to gain, maybe a lot to lose.
Wont the org go to her superiors?
I would think they might.

Yardick.
Not much of a quote to accuse someone of FALSEHOOD based upon.
I think you will find that Dannii ASSUMED the person was concerned about the media.
Imagine this conversation:

Man clutches heart.
Dannii: "Do you need help sir?"
Man: "No, I dont want the media here".

I think not, PawMan.

LoneWolf

Yadirf --- Shut up and sit down. You're an idiot.

Teejay --- I understand and agree that we shouldn't take out innocent people. However, in what manner are these elders innocent? Have you ever heard of the Nuremburg defense?

The deciding detail for me was that the Society's lawyer (presumably) was already on the speaker phone and they weren't told. That alone tells me to take the gloves off.

Yes, many of these elders are sincere. They need to wake up.

If they are covering the Society's butts, then they are anything but innocent. The Society's power is exerted primarily through the elders and that will not change nor be seriously threatened until the message is delivered loud and clear that the elders are being used as cannon fodder and that there will be personal consequences for them if they continue to unquestioningly cooperate with the GB.

In my opinion, there was a great deal accomplished here. That message above was delivered. People are beginning to look down their throat and they are getting nervous. Beautiful. Heap on more. Bring a reporter next time. You can bet that every BOE within 100 miles will hear of it and feel some trepidation.

Yes, the members of the congregation were subjected to quite a sight. That should make them think, too. And don't give me the hogwash that all they will do is isolate themselves more. Some will, of course, but others will be turned off by the conduct of the elders and their doubts and fears will fly everywhere. It's just one more dab of solvent that will dissolve the glue that holds everything together.

One thing for wure was accomplished. The myth that the Society continually perpetrates about the Witnesses being so respected by the world will have a hard time getting much credibility in that congregation.

Don't be fooled by the intellectual reactions they have to these circumstances. Sure, they will ballyhoo far and wide that it is all the fault of the "apostates" dirtying their good name. The real reaction is inside, in their hearts. It raises that question, "Do we deserve it?" and that question will always be there nagging them under the surface.

In the long run, that is the Society's Achilles heel.

Tom Howell
Alias: LoneWolf

The meeting did not go well.

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