The Significance of Raymond Victor Franz

by AllTimeJeff 41 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  SixofNine

  Actually I noticed the same thing and almost commented on it earlier.

  Jeff, this is the portion of Ray's story you seem to be alluding to: " In COC Ray wrote, " That afternoon Chairman Schroeder brought the Governing Body's decision to me. Evidently those seeking disfellowshiping had not attained a two-thirds majority, for he simply informed me that I was being asked to resign from the Body and also as a member of the headquarters staff....""

  ...So that is what your words should sound like. Nothing more, nothing less. Randy's "forced out" is much closer to Ray's telling than your "resign his leadership position...over principle", and the two tellings (yours and Randy's) sound nothing alike.

  Ray Franz' life's work is not diminished by the above facts in the least; but even if it was, I feel reasonably sure that he would want it portrayed w/o even a hint of embellishment.

  This ain't politics ;)
• 

  AllTimeJeff

  Duly noted.
• 

  slimboyfat

  Crisis of Conscience is quite clear that Raymond Franz fought against being forced out of the governing body.

  This to me emphasizes the candour of his account, and does not diminish any of the damning things about the organisation he revealed.
• 

  StAnn

  RANDY: Don't be dissing Tom Cabeen, btw. He's a great guy!

  edited to add: Perhaps Lady Lee could put a Raymond Franz thread under "Best Of".

  StAnn
• 

  Paralipomenon

  It is not a popular opinion, but I think Ray's efforts while a member of the GB actually helped turn it into the legalistic beast that it is now.

  While the religion had a person in the position of "President" the doctrine changed to match that of the head. With power taken away from a "presidential" position and given to a democratic body, the ability to change and adapt was taken away. Most major votes will not pass unless seen as necessary to reform an embarassing teaching or legal necessity.

  This has led to legal challenges all over the world as they cling to outdated doctrine. It has really fine tuned the organization from religious to political. Gone from misguided to oppressive.

  I think he acted in good faith in bringing the changes, but neglected to factor in human greed and ambition. His actions then gave power to a new beast that has, and continues to pile an inflexible load on their "flock".

  His work in CoC and ISoCF have been an enormous help to the ex-witness community, but I think his actions while a GB member will end up being what eventually topples the tower. It is a shame that he didn't live to see it in his lifetime.

  RIP Raymond Franz
• 

  Dogpatch

  Believingxjw says,

  In COC Ray wrote, " That afternoon Chairman Schroeder brought the Governing Body's decision to me. Evidently those seeking disfellowshiping had not attained a two-thirds majority, for he simply informed me that I was being asked to resign from the Body and also as a member of the headquarters staff...."

  Next paragraph, "I wrote out my resignation..." COC, page 332

  Ray resigned because he was asked to resign.

  Ray continued to attend meetings after he left Bethel. The elders in his congregation even considered appointing him elder.

  I believe we should be just as honest about things as we ask the JWs to be.

  I watched the events unfold every day for the few months I was there after Ray left. Ray didn't want to leave the organization, he thought he could be a good buffer. Lyman Swingle was his biggest sympathizer and was one of the one third that didn't want to disfellowship him, because he knew everything that was going on. Lyman, out of pressure of being potentially forced out himself, just later turned into a lowly coward and towed the organizational line.

  The doublespeak of Schroeder was so obvious it stunk; you didn't sit in on the secret Bethel elders meetings right after he left, and you weren't privy to the private conversations that occurred every day, and other close information from Tom and Gloria Cabeen as to how the WT planned to get him disfellowshipped. They were going to railroad him any way they could, even if they had to hide in the bushes and watch him day and night. Ray did not just stand up for truth and say, "I'm leaving because you are corrupt." He wanted to stay and help change, until he realized it was impossible. He had no choice but to resign; any other imagined option is simply bullshit. Knorr pulled this crap all the time, as did Rutherford. I saw it personally with Knorr many times, and heard many stories from Bethelites about their clever politics. The Service Dept. was even more slimey in how they engineered the exiting of Franz.

  But the point is not a big one. Just another corporate cleansing.

  Were you at Bethel at the time? Did you know these people firsthand, and privately share their confidences?

  yours,

  Randy
• 

  AllTimeJeff

  I just wanted to comment on believingxjw and others who pointed out that Ray Franz was forced to resign, implying that he did not do so over principle.

  My blog, as well as my impressions of CoC and the events described, are totally my own, independent of Randy Watters or anyone associated at Freeminds.

  Clearly, Ray himself was at a crossroads, conflicted as to trying to see if effective change could be done from within. What stuck out to me as I read CoC was that Ray was planning on leaving, he took a leave of absence to make arrangements do so, and I interpret that to mean that his intentions were to resign his position on the Governing Body over principle.

  The fact is that he did resign, even though it came quicker then he had planned.

  It isn't my intention to argue over other people's impressions. The fact that Al Schroeder and Lloyd Barry among others had Ray Franz in the crosshairs since at least 1979 and effectively got him while he wasn't there, building a case before Franz knew what hit him doesn't change in my mind what he was preparing to do.

  Anyone can read CoC and make up their own minds about that. I regret that my impressions of CoC have been interpreted by some as they have. In the end, as others have noted, it doesn't matter nor does it change the good work that Franz did, which is the most important thing.

  For those who feel otherwise, I extend my apologies.
• 

  PSacramento

  Very well put Jeff and thanks for the perspective Randy.

  Ray always seemed to me like "walk softly and carry a big stick" kind of guy, the big stick being his unshakeable faith in Jesus.
• 

  believingxjw

  AllTimeJeff,

  "I just wanted to comment on believingxjw and others who pointed out that Ray Franz was forced to resign, implying that he did not do so over principle."

  Ray continued to be a JW and attended meetings. He apparently still believed enough to do so. Or are you saying he attended meetings as a hypocrite?

  Ray was being honest when he wrote COC, I believe we should be as honest as he was.
• 

  AllTimeJeff

  Believingxjw, thank you for sharing your point of view.