Explaining the NEW Generation!

by UnDisfellowshipped 32 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  UnDisfellowshipped

  Black Sheep said:

  "Have you got a reference for that? Considering they teach that Jesus did his selecting between Oct 1914 and 1919, it seems unlikely they would claim that."

  The Watchtower has always taught that all Jehovah's Witnesses (or "Bible Students") had the heavenly hope prior to the 1930's or so. They believe that Charles Taze Russell, Joseph Rutherford, Fred Franz, Nathan Knorr, A.H. Macmillan, and all of those old-time leaders had the heavenly hope and were "Anointed" as members of the remnant of the 144,000.

  However, you are correct that they also teach that God and Jesus supposedly did not choose the Watchtower Organization as the "One True Religion" until 1918/1919.

  The Watchtower claims that prior to 1918/1919 God had His "Anointed Remnant" spread out throughout all the churches of Babylon, but in 1918, 1919 God finally separated His true people from Babylon the Great.
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  UnDisfellowshipped

  When you are asking your JW relatives, elders, etc. to explain the New Clarification on the Generation, why not also ask them to explain how Daniel's prophecy of the Great Tree with King Nebuchadnezzar shows that the "Last Days" began in 1914?
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  UnDisfellowshipped

  The Watchtower, September 1st, 1952, Pages 542-543:
  
  Questions from Readers
  
  • Your publications point out that the battle of Armageddon will come in this generation, and that this generation began A.D. 1914. Scripturally, how long is a generation?—G. P., Liberia.
  
  Webster’s unabridged dictionary gives, in part, this definition of generation: “The average lifetime of man, or the ordinary period of time at which one rank follows another, or father is succeeded by child; an age. A generation is usually taken to be about 33 years.” But the Bible is not so specific. It gives no number of years for a generation. And in Matthew 24:34, Mark 13:30 and Luke 21:32, the texts mentioning the generation the question refers to, we are not to take generation as meaning the average time for one generation to be succeeded by the next, as Webster’s does in its 33-year approximation; but rather more like Webster’s first-quoted definition, “the average lifetime of man.” Three or even four generations may be living at the same time, their lives overlapping. (Ps. 78:4; 145:4) Before the Noachian flood the life span was hundreds of years. Down through the centuries since, it has varied, and even now is different in different countries. The Bible does speak of a man’s days as being threescore and ten or fourscore years; but it assigns no specific number of years to a generation.—Ps. 90:10.
  
  Even if it did, we could not calculate from such a figure the date of Armageddon, for the texts here under discussion do not say God’s battle comes right at the end of this generation, but before its end. To try to say how many years before its end would be speculative. The texts merely set a limit that is sufficiently definite for all present practical purposes. Some persons living A.D. 1914 when the series of foretold events began will also be living when the series ends with Armageddon. All the events will come within the span of a generation. There are hundreds of millions of persons living now that were living in 1914, and many millions of these persons could yet live a score or more years. Just when the lives of the majority of them will be cut short by Armageddon we cannot say.
  __________________________________________________

  Compare that to the brand-new light that is being "studied" today around the world by the Jehovah's Witnesses!
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  Sherilynn

  Undisfellowshipped

  I am not sure you are right saying anyone born in 1991 and "later" becomes annointed are part of This Generation. If you listen to the talk about the "increased light" it states:

  To illustrate: F.W. Franz was born in 1893, baptized in 1913, and thus alive to discern “the sign” in 1914 Since Brother Franz lived until 1992,, many present –day anointed ones were contemporaries of his and are part of the “generation” that Jesus said would not pass away “until all these things occur”
  
  Note: many PRESENT-DAY annointed are the contemporaries, not a child born then to later become annointed.

  I called Patterson asked if they were talking about someone to become annointed "later" or did they have to be annointed "Now" and not just someone alive at the same time of Franz being alive to later become annointed. The person I spoke to read from the above portion of the talk as his answer. So I pointed out that this was saying it has to be PRESENT DAY ANNOINTED not someone down the road getting annointed and he confirmed this. Then I said I do not see any scriptural support for Two Groups to equal This Generation and did not understand for what purpose it would be to now have two groups, and said "do you see scripture to support this or understand what is the purpose for this change?" His answer: "I do not".

  I wish others would call and ask for clarification of what is meant by PRESENT DAY ANNOINTED as they did not say future annointed. When I do see a JW that is the question I have for them, as one way it could go on and on without needing future increased light but the other way they are back to putting the carrot out there by allowing JW's to go back to the old way of calculating how much time is left, as was done when there was the original 1914 group.

  I then told him that to say if I was a 60 yr old annointed one sister today, being alive in 1992, then I could calculate approximately how long This Generation has till Armageddon. He didnt respond to that comment.

  Does anyone else see this point as being important to clear up. PRESENT DAY ANNOINTED = Must be Annointed TODAY not FUTURE??

  14

  What does this explanation mean to us? Although we cannot measure the exact length of “this generation,” we do well to keep in mind several things about the word “generation”: It usually refers to people of varying ages whose lives overlap during a particular time period; it is not excessively long; and it has an end. (Ex. 1:6) How, then, are we to understand Jesus’ words about “this generation”? He evidently meant that the lives of the anointed whowere on hand when the sign began to become evident in 1914 would overlap with the lives of other anointed ones who would see the start of the great tribulation. That generation had a beginning, and it surely will have an end.

  It is interesting that they use the DC talks to "clarify" the change but notice they do not put in print what the talk outline states "present day annointed"

  If I was still a believing JW today I would be asking this question from my Book Study Conductor or another Elder, but unfortunately, they have put my house down on the do not call list now, however I am not DF or DA just inactive but vocal if you stop at my door, gee guess that is why the couple that I do not know doing territory yesterday went to all the houses BUT my house. Where is the love for the lost sheep???
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  UnDisfellowshipped

  Sherilynn,

  That is a fantastic question to ask any and all JW's!

  We should all ask them whether the 2nd Group of Anointed had to be Anointed before the 1st Group died off, or does the 2nd Group just have to have their lives overlap (even before they become Anointed)?
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  UnDisfellowshipped

  The important thing to remember (from my experience) is whenever you talk to a JW, always, ALWAYS make them feel like they are the teachers, and you are the students. ASK THEM TO EXPLAIN IT TO YOU.
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  cattails

  Present day anointed or not, the problem in discussing this with any active and loyal JW

  is that they will repeat whatever they think it's the latest understanding according to the

  WT explanations. If 40 or 50 years from now they say there's another group that overlaps

  it will be met with the same willingness to go along with the "New Light" as this latest

  change in doctrine. The WT/GB is such a slimy scoundrel that they'll have another explanation

  on hand and will make the R&F feel as if their expectations were wrong to begin with and

  not accept the blame for setting up the expectation in the first place. They've done it before,

  they've done it since the start, they'll do it again, and again and again. And there will always

  be those gullible enough to fall for it.
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  Heaven

  Sherilynn... thank you for calling and asking for confirmation/clarification. Based on this being PRESENT DAY ANNOINTED, I am assuming that this means PRESENT DAY = Sun Jun 13, 2010. In other words, PRESENT DAY tomorrow, Mon Jun 14, 2010 does not really mean PRESENT it means PAST.

  Because if PRESENT DAY = Sun Jun 13, 2010, then they are going to have to change this definition yet again in the future when 2010 becomes a distant and unfulfilling date.
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  Mad Sweeney

  Sorry to jump way back to the beginning of this discussion but ANYone baptized into the religion of the Watchtower in 1913 was anointed. At that time EVERY ONE of them was going to heaven to rule with Christ. THERE WAS NO EARTHLY CLASS until the 1930s. Even the dubbiest of Dubs should know this. Saying a guy was baptized and anointed in 1913 should be absolutely no problem at all.
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  Sherilynn

  I know full well that "this generation" will continue to change as long as there is the Watchtower. Now when I first studied the Truth Book in 1978 I fully believe what I was taught, had no history of how history in the Watchtower changes as it needs to to instill fear and the chasing after Armageddon.

  So now I keep up with the light in hopes of raising questions with those that are still blinded by the Watchtower Teachings. I have called Brooklyn many times, especially when I realized that we had been lied to and as I did my research I would call, now you have to call Patterson 1-845-306-1000 for service department. If just one of my questions or comments to WT or a JW may put a spark of light to their thought process then hopefully I can say: "Well Done"

  I think I will be calling again and just focus solely on the question: "This Generation" are they the Annointed now while some of the 1914 group One are still alive or do they need only to be born while some of Group One were alive but could become annointed in the future? BECAUSE of the reference made in DC Talk-"Remain In the Secret Place", I listened to, the speaker said at one point "Understanding exactly what Generation is..a bit of a challenge for some.. so to clarify" then he went throught the overlapping generation then gave the Illustration of Fred Franz: which uses the PRESENT DAY ANNOINT but this is not stated as such in the paragraph 14 just covered in this Sunday WT, which I think was done on purpose knowing full well that the talks would lead more to keep thinking Armageddon is just around the corner or Christ is at the door. But to keep the written WT Study more vague, you know so later to put it on the Brothers & Sisters being over zealous in their thinking (aka 1975)

  So don't you think we really need to confirm with the WT or an elder When This Generation aka Group 2 are to be annointed? Now or Later so we can keep on the watch spiritually?