Taliban prisoners in Cuba

by Abaddon 62 Replies latest jw friends

  • Abaddon
    Abaddon

    rhett; If a law is good enough for the law abiding, it's good enough for the law breaking.

    The fact they'd do it to us (whether that is right or wrong) is not an arguement to do it to them. The whole point is that we HAVE TO SEPERATE OURSELVES FROM THEIR BEHAVIOUR, and acting like a 3rd World despot and 'making it up as they go along', is not taking any form of moral high ground.

    You're entitled to your opinion, but I disagree... although I just read another thread where I agreed with you, so don't be too upset

    But, you might be interested to know that BBC World Service reported at 16.00h GMT that there were reports of prisoners being mistreated. But that's okay, they're terrorists, they deserve it...

    Whether that report is true or not, the US just scored a propoganda victory against itself.

    People living in glass paradigms shouldn't throw stones...

  • Seeker
    Seeker

    Human rights apply to anyone who is human, and these guys qualify. If you start handing out human rights only to those you think worthy of them, then you have no reason to complain when a Chinese court won't allow an American to defend himself in the way you think he should, or when a Taliban government official decrees that a woman is deserving of death for showing her face in public. Everybody has a different definition of who is "worthy" of rights, so the only sane course is to say that all humans deserve the same basic human rights. As soon as you start deciding who is worthy and who is not, you lose the high moral ground.

    To me, those who say these prisioners don't deserve humane treatment are like those who like free speech -- except when that speech bothers them, and then they want to ban it. Free speech means you defend that which you find despicable, or else it has no meaning as a concept. Same thing with human rights. If you can't extend the most basic of human dignities to a human you despise, then it has no meaning and you lose the high moral ground.

  • drahcir yarrum
    drahcir yarrum

    If there is even strong circumstantial evidence that any of these prisoners were directly involved in the events of 9/11, either in the planning or the actual logistics of the events, then they should be given a quick military tribunal judgement and if the sentence is death, they should be immediatley executed.

    Sending a strong message to terrorists that we won't tolerate a repeat of 9/11 is MORE important than the human rights of these prisoners.

    "Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life son." Dean Vernon Wormer, Faber College

  • Seeker
    Seeker

    No, you can do both. Treat them humanely while giving them a fair trial, and if guilty, go ahead and sentence them to death.

    The complaint here is that we, as a country, have concepts such as innoncent until proven guilty, and everyone deserves human rights. If we trash those concepts with these guys before the trial, then we are hypocrites.

  • Patriot
    Patriot

    Agree with Seeker 100%

    I'll tell you this Abaddon: those captured and brought to Cuba are being treated like royalty compared to what we would get treated if it were the other way around.

    Trust me...Don't noooooobody what to be held up in an Afganistanian prison. So don't worry to much about them,they'll be alright.

    Mav.- ....Whose been there and done that!

  • Abaddon
    Abaddon

    Ah, I'm clear on this now; we can treat barbarians like barbarians without becoming barbarians ourselves...

    hahahahahahahahahaha!

    I am not saying that any of you in favour of the USA's actions in imprisoning alleged Taliban and Al-Quaeda prisoners in Cuba are not entitled to your opinions.

    I do note, however, that not one of you has put up an arguement justifying it other than on the basis of opinion or "they're better off than a US prisoner would be in Afghanistan".

    No answer to the human rights issue.

    No answer to the wisdom of acting like 3rd World despots.

    No reaction to the news report that prisoners may have already been beaten.

    No justification for due process not being carried out.

    No one even gone near the subject of representation by legal council.

    No answer to the fact that the USA have scored a propoganda victory against themselves (in the eyes of those countries it is most neccesary to impress upon the US's trustworthiness).

    Just "they'd do it to us" or "lock 'em up, I don't care", or "kill 'em quick if there's enough circumstancial evidence at the time, and damn the right to appeal". Your opinions, which you have every right too.

    What it's called is a drum-head court, and that isn't justice, no matter how 'bad' someone is. And that is my opinion, which I'm entitled to too.

    Please note, I am scathing of the opinions I attack, but not of the people who hold them. I learnt long ago that lovely people can have opinions dimetrically opposed to mine, and still be lovely people. Me feeling this way does not mean I'm better than you, okay? I just want to be clear on that as it's an emotive issue, and I would quite likely want them torn apart by wild horses on CBS at primetime if I had been directly affected.

    But justice is not what about we do when we are directly affected.

    It is about what we do should do.

    People living in glass paradigms shouldn't throw stones...

  • ThiChi
    ThiChi

    The sick puppies are being kept on a US base. What’s the problem? Would you like to endanger a US court and staff and everyone else so these poor souls can be tried in the good ‘ol USofA? These people will kill your mother, aunt, son, daughter and any one else they can get their hands on.

    Holy shit, over three thousand citizens, men, women and children have been denied their civil rights by just being killed. I say hang the bastardy bunch of them..

    “We all fell down from the milky way, hanging around here for the judgement day, heaven only knows who’s in command.”- Jimmy Buffet

  • Seeker
    Seeker

    I see we have already decided their guilt, calling them sick puppies and dangerous people. So why bother with a trial? They are already guilty, aren't they? After all, the U.S. government would never, ever arrest someone unless they were already guilty, right?

    Trials are just a waste of time anyway. Let's just H-Bomb Afghanistan and take care of everything. In fact, let's wipe out Iraq while we are at it. We all know that all Taliban think alike, and are all equally guilty, as are all Iraqi. There are no innocent bystanders in that part of the world, and if the U.S. Army grabs somebody, that's good enough for me! Kill 'em all and pass me another hamburger while I recline in my chair and watch more Jerry Springer.

  • ThiChi
    ThiChi

    Who says they won’t get a hearing? Where they rounded up while in line at Disneyland? Or, while fighting for the “other side?” Give me a break.......

    Once more:

    """Would you like to endanger a US court and staff and everyone else so these poor souls can be tried in the good ‘ol USofA?""" Do you understand why we don't want them on our soil? They like to kill and break things....

    I wish I could sentence you to five days of helping remove the bodies at ground zero.....

    “We all fell down from the milky way, hanging around here for the judgement day, heaven only knows who’s in command.”- Jimmy Buffet

  • fodeja
    fodeja
    These people will kill your mother, aunt, son, doughter and any one else they can get their hands on.

    Seems you have more information than the rest of us, who get nothing but propaganda via the mass media.

    Who are these people, and what evidence is there? Heck, even circumstantial evidence would be a good start. Anything more than hearsay and allegations.

    I wish I could sentence you to five days of helping remove the bodies at ground zero.....
    Totally irrelevant. I wish I could sentence you to removing the bodies of the innocent victims of this war-or-not-war "against terrorism". Oh, I'm sorry, there aren't any. CNN said so.

    But that's besides Abaddon's point. Where do you draw the line? Why should human rights be valid for some and not others, and who decides who's entitled? The media? The president of the USA? The military? The mob on the streets?

    And if there are different sets of human rights, what gives the USA the right to complain about other countries' human rights practices? "No fair trials for Americans in China? Those evil Chinese commies! No fair trials for Afghans on a US base? Those evil Afghans!"

    f.

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