by EndofMysteries 49 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
I just drew a pentagram and placed some bacon in the middle. Then i said: "satan, get of you lazy but and eat the bacon, otherwise i swear i will laugh when God kicks your sissy ass!"
still no demunz. perhaps i will get his attention when i eat his bacon later...
Curious, as ones not believing in any spirit creatures, would you feel completely at ease performing a summon demon ritual.
As a confessed atheist such as myself , I wouldn't waste my time pursuing such a venture.
The point being if a person were to do such a thing, he or she wouldn't really be an an atheist at heart and mind.
Spirits/gods were founded and established on human ignorance of the world we live in. ( that includes YHWH )
Demons exist only in the imaginative part of the human psyche.
Considering I wrote the first post at 2am, I'm pleased at how coherent it reads.
I suppose I consider myself more agnostic, simply because "I don't know" what kind of entity, if any, caused this Universe. I'm almost certain it wasn't the Hebrew god Yahweh, though. Not accepting any known gods of organized religion makes me an atheist, too, to most people, but that word is becoming somewhat of an epithet (in the contemporary usage of the term).
Let me further clarify my position on magick with a quote from an archdriud John Michael Greer, whose blog I enjoy reading:
...One of the most distinguished 20th century theoreticians and practitioners of magic, Dion Fortune, defined magic as “the art and science of causing change in consciousness in accordance with will.” (If that doesn’t sound like a recipe for making broomsticks fly, you’re beginning to catch on.) The basic tools of the mage are will and imagination; the raw materials he or she works with are symbolism and ritual – “poetry in the realm of acts,” as Fortune’s near-contemporary Ross Nichols defined that last term. The point of magic, as Fortune’s definition suggests, is changing states and contents of consciousness; it can have effects on the material world as well, but that normally involves influencing beings that bridge the gap between mind and matter – you and me, for example.
Exactly what can and can’t be done by way of will and imagination, working through emotionally powerful symbols and ritual psychodrama, is a question on which not all mages agree. Still, I don’t know of anyone in the field who claims to be able to levitate a broom, say, or to do any of the other things that make up the stock in trade of fantasy magicians. ...
Even the Witnesses practice magical thinking though they are not aware of it. Nor are they aware of the negative effects that their "rituals" and "chants" have on themselves and others because they don't fully understand the sub-conscious narratives that underpin their world view. They believe in literal demons, yet they create and feed the "demons" within themselves.
My answer is found in Carl Sagan's masterpiece, The Demon Haunted World, Science As A Candle In The Dark. Chapter 12, The Fine Art Of Baloney Detection. Look it up.
Curious, as ones not believing in any spirit creatures, would you feel completely at ease performing a summon demon ritual, or using ancient magic words, that absolutely nothing would happen? Or deep down would you have a 'what if' restraint preventing you? -EoM
The more I think of it, the more I realize that the premise and questions are based on a "straw man." It shows me that the OP hasn't ever actually studied what are considered "occult" beliefs and practices beyond a "Hollywood" education. So, while the "straw man" of magic and demons appears contradictory to atheism/agnosticism, a more serious consideration of the subject shows they are not. Of course, this is not to say that practicers of ceremonial magick or any of the meditation arts and rituals don't believe in literal demons. To be sure, many do. However, I am writing from my own perspective which is laced with a healthy dose of skepticism.
Bohm - I'll knock 2 birds with one stone here, look at my response to Occultdave.
Occultdave - Since you say beyond Hollywood, I'm sure Hollywood wasn't around in the 1st and 2nd century. On towards the bottom of this, look for the 36 head beast, and you'll find magik ancient incantations.
Book is called, "The testament of Solomon" - go to line 73 through 106
I just drew a pentagram and placed some bacon in the middle. Then i said: "satan, get of you lazy but and eat the bacon, otherwise i swear i will laugh when God kicks your sissy ass!" still no demunz. perhaps i will get his attention when i eat his bacon later...
hahahhaha too funny......
EoM, from your link:
"This text is an Old Testament Pseudepigraphic catalog of demons summoned by King Solomon"
Just because I've stated my position on the serious side of the occult, does not mean that I practice occult rituals. I won't believe fantasy stories of the occult from the first and second centuries AD any more than I believe in Jesus' miracles. However,...
Technically, I could "create" and/or "summon" an entity like Azathoth using rituals of ceremonial magick. I don't need so-called ancient texts to do this. Many of these so-called ancient Egyptian and Jewish magical texts have a much more recent origin than they claim. I would seriously call into question something that claims to have been written by Solomon that is not recognized as such by historians. That's why they are called Pseudepigraphs. The writer, almost certainly not Solomon, hoped to get credibility (and money?) by attaching the name of the famous king to his work.
Back to our example, Azathoth. This "demonic" entity comes from fictional works by H. P. Lovecraft. If I performed ceremonies to summon it, Azathoth could then become very real, to me. In fact, I would be willing to bet that there are quite a few fans of Lovecraftian mythology who have done this very thing. Yet, each one of them would have a different experience and perception of the entity in question, Azathoth.
If I were far enough along in the practice of magick, I might even be able to see and speak with this entity through astral projection. But, it would be a very personal experience. An unbalanced mind could lose perspective. A more rational person would see it as a way to explore sub-conscious issues and possible outcomes of actions and events. Yet it all would amount to having a conversation with myself in a lucid dream.
Bohm,
Bacon is too salty for the Devil - you need to flay the skin from a virgin and place it in the middle the inverted pentagram. Don't forget to have Kiss and Black Sabbath playing in the background and read a Harry Potter book whist reciting the incantations.
