Eternal life for flesh and blood creatures

by donny 22 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  JWoods

  animals were not mean to be immortal, according JW doctrine. In fact it has been reasoned that the only way adam knew what death was, thus making the threat about the tree of of live understandable, is because he saw animals die.

  Yes, I have definately heard this from JW teachings and I think it was written teaching. Thus, the "dominion" argument is not accepted in the form presented above by the JW theology. I still do not recall much of anything definate on what they think happens to the life of animals in the "new system of things" - I seem to recall (as speculation only) that they would still be mortal.
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  debator

  The bible is silent on this subject specifically. but only mankind is talked about as having the promised reward of everlasting life.
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  snowbird

  Thus, the "dominion" argument is not accepted in the form presented above by the JW theology.

  I beg to differ.

  Dominion means that Man could kill animals if necessary.

  Syl
• 

  JWoods

  But Sylvia - man being able to kill them (after being thrown out of the Garden) is different from saying that they did (or did not) have an inherent theoretically "immortal" or "everlasting" life before - in the garden of Eden.

  Or, would have one in a supposed future paradise on Earth...

  Besides the "dominion" statement, there were several other permissions given (at later times) to kill animals and harvest them for food.

  Also, wasn't there something said about the animal skins given to Adam and Eve for clothes? Wouldn't animals have to have died to get their skins?
• 

  EndofMysteries

  According to many parts of the bible, AND other writings not in the canon........Jesus himself said NO FLESH can INHERIT the kingdom. You MUST be BORN AGAIN. Some are born of flesh, and some are born as spirit. Then Apostle Paul couldn't wait for a release from his 'fleshly' body, and was running the race for the 'greater calling' to share in 'divine nature'. Then there is the scripture on man being appointed to die, ONCE, for all time, THEN a resurrection/judgement. So to me, reading those scriptures, means that being born again means a real actual death, then being reborn as a spirit. (or for those of the annointed/ elect)

  In Book of Enoch I think, God says how humans were never meant to live forever, flesh is appointed to die, and that is why he gave them wives. However angels, those of spirit, CAN"T DIE. And how when they mated with human girls, the 1/2 spirit, 1/2 flesh monsters. When they died, their flesh was gone, but their spirit is stuck on earth and THEY are the demons. The rebellious angels who did that, were cast in the abyss and are still imprisoned there.

  Makes sense, in the way of being in harmony with many parts of the bible. It does not make sense on living forever on the earth, etc.

  This may clear a few things up, but I already know the billion questions it will raise, and pretty much this line of thinking adds a whole new dimension of possibilities, but also explains how originally going to heaven, etc, began to be understood.
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  snowbird

  But Sylvia - man being able to kill them (after being thrown out of the Garden) is different from saying that they did (or did not) have an inherent theoretically "immortal" or "everlasting" life before - in the garden of Eden.

  I believe Man had that permission even before his banishment from Eden. Imo, that's what dominion implies.

  So, no immortality for the lower animals.

  Syl
• 

  Chalam

  JWoods I am confused: What exactly does that say about the immortality of animals, Steven???

  I see nothing there unless you jump to conclusions.

  God did not create death, it was a consequence of the fall, neither were we created carnivores but vegetarians.

  Genesis 2:16-17 (New International Version)

  16 And the LORD God commanded the man, "You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die."

  Eating meat only arrived with the Noahic covenant.

  Genesis 9:3-5 (New International Version)

  3 Everything that lives and moves will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything.

  4 "But you must not eat meat that has its lifeblood still in it. 5 And for your lifeblood I will surely demand an accounting. I will demand an accounting from every animal. And from each man, too, I will demand an accounting for the life of his fellow man.

  When the new Jerusalem comes down all things will be restored, Matthew 17:11

  Revelation 21:4 (New International Version)

  4 He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away."

  Blessings,

  Stephen
• 

  donny

  So if God is immortal and so loving why would he have made creatures that would grow old, suffer and die? He could have done better than that. I think the best evidence to his existence would have been if everything was created immortal and Adam and Eve and their offspring were the only things that died after committing the "sin."
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  nancy drew

  This planet is a planet of life & death if a part of the food chain stops dying how will the system continue to function properly?
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  frigginconfused

  The earth is ever changing. Species will come and go. Life will be born and die. What is special about humans is that we were supposed to be as angels in command of this planet. The food chain and cycle of life are for us to view and enjoy. We were never meant to die. Animals were. I think where the confusion is coming in, is that you are thinking of humans as meat bodied mammals. The only reason we have these meat bodies is to interact with this earth in a physical way. But we are not our bodies. We are spirit creatures.