How many JW's in the nazi camps?

by Norm 23 Replies latest jw friends

  • Norm
    Norm

    How Many Jehovah's Witnesses in the Concentration Camps?

    How many Jehovah’s Witnesses was there in Germany before and shortly after the war? How many were arrested, and how many did die in concentration camps? The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society know this perfectly well, but don’t seem to be quite satisfied with the number of casualties. Somehow 635 dead, during the Nazi years doesn’t quite satisfy Brooklyn. They have however found it convenient to use the “estimates” done by “modern scientists” which they in all other matters will claim have “no real knowledge”.

    The number of deaths however isn’t the only thing the Watchtower has great difficulties with. They can’t seem to make up their minds about how many Witnesses there actually were in Germany before the war, and seem to be equally confused about the number of Witnesses after the war too. If the Watchtower Society’s handling of this matter is any indication of the accuracy of the other so-called “truth” distributed by them, there is absolutely no need to trust them. Let us investigate some of the material printed by the Watchtower:

    *** yb74 212 Germany (Part One) ***
    “But despite the hard conditions, how those who worshiped Jehovah rejoiced! They had been privileged to prove their integrity to the Sovereign Ruler of the universe. During Hitler’s rule 1,687 of them had lost their jobs, 284 their businesses, 735 their homes and 457 were not allowed to carry on their trade. In 129 cases their property had been confiscated, 826 pensioners had been refused their pensions and 329 others had suffered other personal loss. There were 860 children who had been taken away from their parents. In 30 cases marriages had been dissolved due to pressure by political officials, and in 108 cases divorces had been granted when requested by mates opposed to the truth. A total of 6,019 had been arrested, several two, three or even more times, so that, all together, 8,917 arrests were registered. All together they had been sentenced to serve 13,924 years and two months in prison, two and a quarter times as long as the period since Adam’s creation. A total of 2,000 brothers and sisters had been put into concentration camps, where they had spent 8,078 years and six months, an average of four years. A total of 635 had died in prison, 253 had been sentenced to death and 203 of these had actually been executed. What a record of integrity!”

    As we can see, the Watchtower did have accurate figures. The Watchtower leaders have always been “control freaks”, and “Judge” Rutherford was not less so than the later leaders. Here are the figures again:

    Arrested 6,019. Total number of arrests 8,917*. Total number in concentration camps 2,000. Died in prison 635. Actually executed 203.
    * Some were arrested many times.

    With these numbers in mind, let us then investigate what the Watchtower has claimed elsewhere. The above figures is from 1974 and was given the year before Armageddon (that was supposed to be in the fall (October) 1975). Let us look at other figures:

    1950: 1,000 Witnesses executed 1,000 died in prison and concentration camps:

    *w50 12/15 500 — Already during the Hitler regime about 1,000 Jehovah’s witnesses were executed as traitors, because they not only refused to serve in the war but openly opposed Hitler’s authority. Another 1,000 of Jehovah’s witnesses died in prisons and concentration camps.


    1951: 2,000 Witnesses died cruel deaths

    *w51 2/15 105-6 — That is why during the Nazi regime in Germany from 1933 to 1945 Jehovah’s witnesses in that land refused to heil Hitler! as their Fuehrer or Leader, and went to concentration camps and prisons, where 2,000 died cruel deaths, and of the 8,000 that came out alive, 2,000 were invalided for the rest of their lives.


    1960: 10,000 Witnesses were tortured

    *w60 6/1 327 — Hitler failed to break them in prisons and concentration camps where he tortured 10,000 of them, and the Communists are failing to do it in their frightful prisons and slave-labor camps.


    1964: Over 4,000 Witnesses died 10,000 Witnesses were put in concentration camps

    *w64 1/1 13 — Hitler, a Roman Catholic, the arm of his church in Germany, forbade Jehovah’s witnesses to preach the kingdom of God, and these modern-day Christians had to say to Hitler’s Gestapo police: ‘Whether it is righteous in the sight of God to listen to you rather than to God, judge for yourselves.’ They kept preaching even though 10,000 of them were put in concentration camps and over 4,000 died there. The rest nearly starved to death. The war’s end aided their survival.


    1976: 203 Witnesses executed, 635 Witnesses died in prison A total of 6,019 Witnesses was arrested

    *w76 2/1 82 — ... a total of 6,019 had been arrested, several of them two, three, or even more times, so that, all together, 8,917 arrests were registered; and these persons served sentences amounting to 13,924 years in prison. Many of these faithful men and women were put into concentration camps and thus collectively spent 8,078 years undergoing vicious treatment there. A total of 635 died in prison, 253 were sentenced to death, with 203 of these actually being executed.


    1979: 203 Witnesses executed, 635 Witnesses died in prison A total of 6,019 Witnesses was arrested

    *w79 7/1 7-8 — By way of illustration, please consider the years 1933 to 1945, when Adolf Hitler’s “Third Reich" tried to exterminate Jehovah’s Witnesses in the German Reich. Their activities were banned and 6,019 were arrested, several of them two, three or more times. Two thousand suffered in concentration camps. A total of 635 Witnesses died in prison, 203 being executed.

    How Many Witnesses in Germany at the beginning of the Third Reich?

    1971: 14,453 Witnesses in Germany in 1932

    *** w71 1/1 16 Have You Entered the Great Contest of Faith? ***
    35 In 1932 when the last report was received from Germany and before the ban was placed on Jehovah’s witnesses, there were 14,453 sharing in the Kingdom declaration. By 1946, following the collapse of the German war machine and the opening of the gates of the concentration camps — but not the graves — there were 11,415 dedicated Christians still in the great contest for the faith. Ten years later this number grew to 50,530, and by 1970 in Western Germany there were 86,252 Christian witnesses of Jehovah.


    1975: 19,000 Witnesses in Germany in 1933

    g75 2/22 22 — Yet among the 19,000 German Jehovah’s witnesses in 1933, “a higher proportion (97 per cent) suffered some form of persecution than any of the other churches.”


    1995: 25,000 Witnesses in Germany at the beginning of the third rich.
    10,000 Witnesses in prison. 2,000 Witnesses in concentration camps.

    *** g95 8/22 10 The Evils of Nazism Exposed ***
    Why were Jehovah’s Witnesses so well acquainted with the concentration camps? When World War II started in 1939, there were already 6,000 Witnesses confined in camps and prisons. German historian Detlef Garbe estimates that the Witnesses constituted at that time between 5 and 10 percent of the total camp population! At a seminar on the Witnesses and the Holocaust, Garbe stated: “Of the 25,000 persons who admitted to being Jehovah’s Witnesses at the beginning of the Third Reich, about 10,000 were imprisoned for any length of time. Of these, over 2,000 were admitted to concentration camps. This means that the Jehovah’s Witnesses were, with the exception of the Jews, the worst persecuted by the SS of all the religious based groups.”
    No one among the Jehovah's Witnesses did of course bothered to tell Garbe that the number of people attending the memorial supper has little to do with the actual number of Jehovah's Witnesses. Being present at the memorial doesn’t mean that you ADMIT being a Jehovah's Witness.

    How Many Witnesses Came Out of the Camps?

    1950: 8,000 Witnesses came out of the Camps

    *** w50 5/15 153 Organized for United Testimony ***
    11 The most notorious case of persecution for living up to the name is that of the witnesses in Germany. They were banned by Hitler soon after he signed the concordat with the Vatican in 1933. Their property was confiscated. Ten thousand ministers were placed in concentration camps. Only eight thousand were released after World War II; two thousand had been murdered.


    1951: 8,000 Witnesses came out of the Camps

    *w51 2/15 105-6 — That is why during the Nazi regime in Germany from 1933 to 1945 Jehovah’s witnesses in that land refused to heil Hitler! as their Fuehrer or Leader, and went to concentration camps and prisons, where 2,000 died cruel deaths, and of the 8,000 that came out alive, 2,000 were invalided for the rest of their lives.


    1971: 11,415 Witnesses came out of the Camps?

    *** w71 1/1 16 Have You Entered the Great Contest of Faith? ***
    35 In 1932 when the last report was received from Germany and before the ban was placed on Jehovah’s witnesses, there were 14,453 sharing in the Kingdom declaration. By 1946, following the collapse of the German war machine and the opening of the gates of the concentration camps — but not the graves — there were 11,415 dedicated Christians still in the great contest for the faith.”


    1987: 9,000 Witnesses in Germany in 1946

    *** g87 5/22 15 Part 6: 1946-1959 Deceptive Prosperity Amid a Peace That Was Not *** Jehovah’s Witnesses preserved Christian neutrality during World War II and thereafter. Rebounding from Hitler’s attempts to destroy them, the number of active Witnesses in Germany increased from fewer than 9,000 in 1946 to over 52,000 within five years.

    The Yearbook of 1974 states that there was a TOTAL of 2,000 Witnesses in the camps! And that the number of deaths was "a total of 635"! Yet we see that the Watchtower throw around fantasy figures like 10,000 Witnesses in the camps, and 4,000 dead! Why?

    Norm

  • Celia
    Celia

    Yes, why, oh why !

    g75 2/22 22 — Yet among the 19,000 German Jehovah’s witnesses in 1933, “a higher proportion (97 per cent) suffered some form of persecution than any of the other churches.”
    Did they somehow forget that 6 millions Jews were killed ?
  • OUTLAW
    OUTLAW

    Hey Norm,it`s just like Malowie.The more people suffer,the more dead bodies,the better the advertising!WATCH OUT McDONALDS!."McJO-HOES!" The Fast Spiritual Food restaraunt chain is coming to a neighborhood near you!...OUTLAW

  • slipnslidemaster
    slipnslidemaster

    Dude, I totally LOVE your essays. This one was awesome as always!!!!

    Thank you!!

    I think that the number changed because the sick and infirm at the time were being multipled by .25 to get their numbers up (obscure reference to the new 15 minute rule for infirm and sick publishers).

    Slipnslidemaster:"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is."
    - Jan L.A. van de Snepscheut

  • Norm
    Norm

    The suffering of the Jew’s was nothing compared to Jehovah's Witnesses

    They really have a great sense of reality in Brooklyn. Look at this:

    *** w60 1/15 43 The Great God Who Is "Doing Wondrous Things" ***
    During World War II, the stand of Jehovah’s witnesses in Germany in refusing to salute the Nazi swastika or heil Hitler, and their neutrality as regards his war of aggression, brought upon them one of the cruelest persecutions in history. One writer describes it: “When the witnesses did not give up the struggle for their religious convictions, a campaign of terror was launched against them which surpassed anything perpetrated against other victims of Nazism in Germany. . . . The sufferings of Jehovah’s Witnesses in the camps were even worse than those meted out to Jews, pacifists or Communists.

    Yes indeed! What is the suffering of millions of Jew’s compared to the horrible tragedy of 635 dead Jehovah's Witnesses? Who can ever dispute that?

    *** bf 550 24 Pouring Out the Seven Last Plagues Begins ***
    Let them verify by authentic recorded history whether the idolized “sun” of this old world ceased from its scorching heat after the “holy year” of 1933. Informed persons know that in that same year Hitler became dictator of Nazi Germany, a horrible Nazi persecution of Jehovah’s witnesses, worse than that on the Jews, began,..
    Somehow Brooklyn doesn’t seem to be able to even agree with themselves. It somehow turns out that someone in Brooklyn found out that the suffering of the Jews was worse off than Jehovah's Witnesses after all:

    *** g89 4/8 7 The Holocaust-Yes, It Really Happened! ***
    “The mistreatment on our arrival at Sachsenhausen is beyond human comprehension. Jews were sent into a separate camp inside the main camp. They had worse conditions than the others. For instance, the Jews had no sleeping shelves, only straw sacks on the floor. The barracks were so crammed that it was necessary to lie like sardines, with one man’s feet being at the next man’s head. In the morning, dead men were found lying next to the living. There was no medical care for the Jews.
    What a struggle they have had with this problem in Brooklyn. How can you best make a real horror story out of 635 dead? Well, they really have tried haven’t they? They have really milked it for all it’s worth.

    Norm.

  • hillary_step
    hillary_step

    Good Work Norm,

    a horrible Nazi persecution of Jehovah’s witnesses, worse than that on the Jews, began,..

    I believe that this comment did not orginate with the WTS but was based on a comment made by a historian who wrote of the Nazi persecutions in general.

    Im travelling at present but have the book in my library and will pass the reference on to you.

    Best regards -- HS

  • Norm
    Norm

    Hi Hillary,

    Thank you but I know it was based on a book written by an American professor. Either he has been misquoted or the guy must have been the ultimate in professoral stupidity. I have no idea, I have met stupid professors before.

    *** w67 7/1 394 Developing and Displaying Self-Control ***
    5 In his book entitled “The Nazi State,” Professor Ebenstein of Princeton University wrote concerning Jehovah’s witnesses: “When the witnesses did not give up the struggle for their religious convictions, a campaign of terror was launched against them which surpassed anything perpetrated against other victims of Nazism in Germany. . . . The sufferings of Jehovah’s Witnesses in the camps were even worse than those meted out to Jews, pacifists or Communists. Small as the sect is, each member seems to be a fortress which can be destroyed but never taken.”
    This guy couldn't have done much research.

    Norm.

  • Abaddon
    Abaddon

    This is actually very useful; it means that you can sit down with a CD-ROM of the Societies publications, in fromt of a Witness, and using a simple search pull up a set of widely differing figures.

    Some of the 'mistakes' in publications are removed by the time they get on CD-ROM, but this won;t have been deal with by the Ministry of Truth yet...

    People living in glass paradigms shouldn't throw stones...

  • larc
    larc

    Norm,

    You have met stupid professors before?? I resemble that remark.

    Good work as always, brother Norm!

  • Henriksen
    Henriksen

    Hi Norm,

    The Yearbook of 1974 states that there was a TOTAL of 2,000 Witnesses in the camps! And that the number of deaths was "a total of 635"! Yet we see that the Watchtower throw around fantasy figures like 10,000 Witnesses in the camps, and 4,000 dead! Why?

    As it's stated before 635 doesn't sound as much.

    Well the reason why the Watchtower still "throw around fantasy figures like 10,000 Witnesses in the camps, and 4,000 dead" I think have two reasons.

    First, they 'need' the big figurs to confirm their image as the persecuted people of the true God, one of many proofs that they are and have the truth.

    Secondly, "figures like 10,000 Witnesses in the camps, and 4,000 dead" as found in many non-JW books and articles talking about the JW's during the World War II has its origen indirectly from WT.

    When Christine Elizabeth King in 1982 released the book "The Nazi state and the new religions" she used the figurs 10,000/4,000. These figurs were given to her by the WT during her research in the subject. The WT knew this wasn't true, but it seems that they needed something more than just 635 dead. By helping King they now had a proof from a researcher that many tousands died in the Nazi camps.

    When writers to articles from WT is looking for figurs of dead in the camps all they have to do is give a reference to King or others. It conform their selfimage and if the figurs is wrong it's King's error, not the WTs.

    Henriksen

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