New Book Argues That Jehovah is Jesus

by Cold Steel 12 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

Cold Steel


Dr. Margaret Barker’s new book, The Great Angel: A Study of Israel’s Second God, argues conclusively that Yahweh, the God of Israel, was not the Father of Jesus, but Jesus Christ himself. Furthermore, the belief that Jehovah was God’s (Elyon’s) “first” Son — a tradition that went far back into Israelite history. It not only was known to the ancient prophets, but to the early Christians and even the Gnostics. Eusebius, writing in 320 A.D., notes that Moses “names first the Most High God, the Supreme God of the Universe, and then, as Lord, His Word, Whom we call Lord in the second degree after the God of the universe....” This second Lord (Jehovah) is “One beyond comparison with (the angels), the Head and King of the Universe, I mean to Christ Himself, as being the Only Begotten Son, was handed over that part of humanity denominated Jacob and Israel.” (Proof of the Gospel, IV.9)
“Yahweh the God of Israel,” Barker writes, “was the Son, the Christ. The Word of God, [Eusebius] says called people to worship the Father, ‘Who is Most High, far above all things that are seen, beyond the heaven and the whole begotten essence, calling them quietly and gently, and delivering them to the worship of God Most High alone, the Unbegotten and the Creator of the Universe.’” (IV.9)
Barker says “There was no doubt that Jesus was identified with the God of the Jews. The problem was: Who was this God of the Jews and what was his place in the hierarchy?” Even so, she continues, “The evidence that the first Christians identified Jesus with the God of the Jews is overwhelming; it was their customary way of reading the Old Testament. The appearances of Yahweh or the angel of Yahweh were read as manifestations of the pre-existent Christ. The Son of God was their name for Yahweh.” (Page 192)
According to Philo, Barker says the Logos, or “second God” was “the heavenly high priest. He passed through the temple veil and clothed himself in it as he did so, thus taking material form.” (Page 98) Moreover, in ancient Hebrew theology, Yahweh and its various forms are always associated with salvation. Barker views the Yahweh tradition from its earliest days in light of the angels and sons of God, Yahweh being the first and by far the preeminent of the sons of Elyon.
On the book’s back cover, the synopsis reads: “What did ‘Son of God,’ ‘Messiah,’ and ‘Lord’ mean to the first Christians when they used these words to describe their beliefs about Jesus? In this groundbraking, clearly written book, Margaret Barker goes against protocol and treats these three titles collectively.” It adds: “Barker claims that pre-Christian Judaism was not monotheistic and that the roots of Christian Trinitarian theology lie in pre-Christian Palestinian belief about the angels — a belief derived from the ancient religion of Israel in which there was a High God and several Sons of God. Yahweh was a Son of God, manifested on Earth in human form…. Jesus was a manifestation of Yahweh, acknowledged as Son of God, Messiah, and Lord.” That Jesus was more than an angel and preeminent in the Sons of God, being the Only Begotten, fits squarely with Old Testament scripture in which Yahweh and Elyon were One in Purpose, but separate entities.
Steve Smoot reviewed her book on Amazon.com and reported: “The basic conclusion of Ms. Barker is that the earliest Hebrews, including the patriarchs and fathers of Israel, worshiped Yahweh or Jehovah as Lord of Israel and Elohim as Almighty God the Creator. She contends, correctly in my opinion, that the two were distinct and separate beings, with Yahweh being one of seventy sons of Elohim - who were all godly like Elohim - who ruled over Israel. She also contends, once again correctly, that Jesus was not God Almighty - Elohim - manifest in the flesh, but instead the God Yahweh. She further contends that the history and religion of the Henotheistic Hebrews was whitewashed into a Monotheistic faith by king Josiah around 621 B.C. in order to further distance himself and his people from the Polytheistic Gentiles that were the Babylonians. And that more whitewashing occurred when the Greek Catholic Fathers wished to portray Jesus as God the Father in order to placate the Greek and Roman Christians and make themselves Monotheistic. … Five stars!!!!”
Dr. Barker is a highly praised Methodist scholar (not Mormon, as some have speculated). Her research flies in the face of Jehovah’s Witness belief that Jehovah is God the Father, not Jesus. (Witnesses confuse Jesus with Michael, the archangel, which was a rather bizarre assumption to make in the beginning). Old Testament writers talk about Jehovah being Savior and Judge, while New Testament writers make the same correlations with Jesus. “For the Father judgeth no man,” wrote John, “but has committed all judgment to the Son.”
This groundbreaking research seems to shatter the very basis of JW theology. But will the Witnesses change that theology to remain consistent with the scriptures, or will they stubbornly hold to their present beliefs based on their outdated and limited exegesis of biblical scriptures?
Cold Steel

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PSacramento

So what she is saying is that there is GOD - Elohim and then there is YHWH who is know as Jesus after his incarnation as man, correct?
Jesus is but ONE of God's70 sons?
How does she explain the ONLY begotten Son issue?
EndofMysteries

I'll first 'partially' say that I've 'partially' come to the same conclusion too. If you read the OT in Hebrew interlinear, it should be very obvious there is some weird stuff and translations problems going on.
GreyWolf

I think this is a thesis that won't hold up if it is correctly reported here. Genesis uses the name Jehovah or Yahweh along with the title Elohim. So Yahweh Elohim is one God. The term Elohim is used for Yahweh, false gods and goddesses, angels and even men, as Jesus pointed out. It is true there is room for confusion in Genesis where angels appear to Abraham and one is called Yahweh. But it is generally suggested that an angel appears as Yahweh's representative and is called Yahweh because he speaks for him. Justin Martyr deals with this matter at length in his Dialogue with Trypho the Jew.
I do not defend the idea that Jesus was (is) Michael, but that is not just a silly Watchtower idea. John Calvin taught it and so did the Adventists. It is also in The Shepherd of Hermas, one of the apostolic fathers of the second century that almost made it into the New Testament.
GreyWolf
jejeval

I agree!
Yea Jehovah is no other than Jesus Christ if you use King James Version. But if you use New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures in which JW is using then you might convince that Jehovah and Jesus Christ are two separate beings.
See the difference between King James Version and New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures :
1 Cor. 10:1-4 New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures
1 Now I do not want YOU to be ignorant, brothers, that our forefathers were all under the cloud and all passed through the sea
2 and all got baptized into Moses by means of the cloud and of the sea;
3 and all ate the same spiritual food
4 and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they used to drink from the spiritual rock-mass that followed them, and that rock-mass meant the Christ.
1 Cor. 10:1-4 (King James Version)
1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud , and all passed through the sea ;
2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat ;
4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. (End quote).
We know that the Jehovah is the God of Israel.
2 Samuel 22:32
For who is God, save the Lord ? and who is a rock, save our God?
So in 1 Cor. 10:4 (quote) And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. (see Exodus 14:15-16; 21-22)
jejeval

New Book Urges That Jehovah Is Jesus (Correct)
Jehovah is: I AM THAT I AM (Jesus is: I Am) Ex. 3:14; John 8:58 KJV
Jehovah is: First and Last (Jesus is: First and Last) Isaiah 41:4; 44:6; 48:12, Rev. 1:11, 17; 22:13
Please compare again Exodus 3:14; John 8:56-58 of the King James Version against New World Translation of the Holy Scripture
King James Version (KJV) Exodus 3:14
Quote
“And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
King James Version (KJV) John 8:56-58
56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
Here in King James Version there are lots of proofs that Jehovah is no other than Jesus Christ. I Am was used in Exodus 3:14 while New World Translation of the Holy Scripture altered the word “I Am” in which quoted in John 8:58 of KJV
New World Translation of the Holy Scripture of Exodus 3:14
Quote
At this God said to Moses: “I SHALL PROVE TO BE WHAT I SHALL PROVE TO BE .” And he added: “This is what you are to say to the sons of Israel, ‘I SHALL PROVE TO BE has sent me to YOU .’” (New World Translation of the Holy Scripture)
New World Translation of the Holy Scripture of John 8:56-58
Quote
56 Abraham YOUR father rejoiced greatly in the prospect of seeing my day, and he saw it and rejoiced.” 57 Therefore the Jews said to him: “You are not yet fifty years old, and still you have seen Abraham?”
58 Jesus said to them: “Most truly I say to YOU , Before Abraham came into existence, I have been.”End quote.
Jehovah was talking to Abraham and even to Moses like: I Am that I Am. Jesus also referred Himself as “am he or I Am” John 4:26; 8:58 KJV
Jehovah is the first and the last see Isaiah 41:4; 44:6; 48:12
Jesus is the first and the last (Alpha & Omega) see Revelations 1:11, 17; 22:13
There’s no doubt that Jehovah of the Old Testament is no other than Jesus Christ of the New Testament.
moshe

There's no doubt that Jehovah of the Old Testament is no other than Jesus Christ of the New Testament.
It's opinion, not fact. A Jew would say there's no doubt that Jesus was a fraud, because he has been missing for almost 2000 years, now. Being invisible has lots of advantages for a diety.
designs

Moshe- Retro-inventing Judaism to read the 'silent Trinity' or some version is the goal, and it insures tenure at some seminary. Rigged game. We got a bucket full of that kind of scholarly work thrown at us from our guys in Brooklyn.
Buyer beware.....
PSacramento

If you look at the writings of the "Yahwists" vs the "Elohists" you cna kind of see where she gets this from when combined with the NT.

New Book Argues That Jehovah is Jesus

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