Jehovah correcting the organization

by sabastious 168 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • frigginconfused
    frigginconfused

    Alice...

    Im not gonna jump on the band wagon and bash you. Instead I would like to ask you something.

    -Why does the WT focus on being different so much?

    I look at the org. as a person. A macro. This seems like a person that is trying real hard to stand out because of low self esteem.

    -Why does the WT spend time teaching "iffy" points instead on focusing primarilly on what matters... Jesus' message.

    ie: Jesus died on a cross or stake, Millions now living will never die, 1914.

    -Why do witnesses still knock on doors?

    The math is clear that if you want to get a worldwide message out use media. Swine flu is a great case. That message went worldwide very fast and a vaccine came just as fast. Internet, tv and radio are much more efficiant than knocking on doors and putting the housholder in a defensive stance because you are standing at thier home.

    -Why is obediance stressed?

    If you want to get someone to believe you are genuine you dont go around demanding obediance. Anyone claiming power over another is in grave sin. One should NEVER claim to be the end all for knowing GOD. If anything, a disclaimer should be at the front of every publication. "We do not claim to be inspired of God. The veiws stated in the following text are the work of man. Although we try to not deviate from Gods word we sometimes make mistakes and stress the importance of testing our ideas. You are ultimatley responsable to God and should never follow the words of man. We welcome new ideas and encourage you to dispute any of our teachings. Please send letters to_____".

    That would show me that they were serious about finding the truth. To not take ideas from the regular Joe is not humble. If they would encourage that kind of participation, I think the numbers would increase dramaticly. I also think that the voice of God could be heard through the people. God picks some unusual characters to relay his word. People with humble beginnings. Like carpenters sons. Not men dressed up in suits sitting on thier high horse choosing what they think we need.

    -Why is time not taken to worship God?

    The kingdom hall is like a school. very formal and layed out with guidelines. Why dont they take the time to have guided meditation. Time to contemplate the vastness of the universe. Time to sit and connect with a higher power. Unless you know how to connect you cant really talk to God. He is always listening. But you cant hear the answers over your own loud human mind.

    -Why isnt time spent on encouraging its members?

    I will not accept the standard JW answer on this. You can find tons of encouragment in the pubs. But I have been a witness. Its a religion of guilt and fear. If I were running the show, everyone would be like a fierce lion! Strong and proud. Not because of being haughty. Because they know what it means to have integrity and live fearless. I come from a big familly and we build eachother up. I dont see this in the hall. Things are still clicky and segragated. I see no true love. Sure you have your best friends. But there are always the wallflowers that get left behind.

    -Why are elders chosen locally?

    I think this way of doing things makes a good ole' boy club. If they had to go through testing from a board, many elders wouldnt be holding positions today.

    - Why are judicial comitees local? Ive seen alot of bad stuff happen because people were pushing the local agenda. Someone from out of state not involved is the only way to give fair treatment to the accused.

    I could go on and on. The problem isnt easilly put down on paper. Thats why its so hard to address. But there is an underlying evil in this religion. Its looks like the truth on paper, but when you go to pick up the paper the bear trap underneath snaps on your hand and traps you.

  • palmtree67
    palmtree67

    Very well said, friggin.

    Very well said.

  • garyneal
    garyneal

    Excellent friggin, I wish my wife could see this.

  • Ultimate Reality
    Ultimate Reality

    Alice,

    You quoted 1 Timothy and pointed our that Jesus is the mediator. Are you aware (according to the Society) that Jesus is NOT the mediator for virtually all of Jehovah's Witnesses and certainly not even a potential mediator for Earth's billions?

    This is the core problem with the Governing Body concept and any other group or individual that claims to be an Earthly representative of God. They seek to take over Christ's role as mediator.

    The Watchtower of November 15, 1979, page 26, made this comment:

    “What, then, is Christ’s role in this program of salvation? Paul proceeds to say: “There is one God, and one mediator between God and men [not, all men], a man Christ Jesus, who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all.”—1 Tim. 2:5, 6.

    The insertion "[not, all men]" is the Society blatantly changing the meaning of the Bible.

    How do you feel about this?

  • frigginconfused
    frigginconfused

    I agree. The only thing between me and God is Jesus. We couldnt connect with God without him. I dont mind someone to do the books and organize things. But no man should ever get in the way of me and God. I agree with so many things the JW's say. But the things I dont are deal breakers. Kills me inside because of the cult programming. I want to feel like I am not being humble and that God will make it right. I should have more patience. I cant do it though. I physically get sick. My blood pressure gets dangerously high. So I have to be true to myself. I just wish I had a more clear cut case of what to do. I have met some really awake people. I wish I could gather them up to start a religion. Problem is none of them would agree on things. But this aloneness is not working for me. cant be a dub and cant be in the world. feels so lonley.

  • sabastious
    sabastious

    Still no answer to the bolded question in the OP. This would be the closest you have come to answering it:

    What Jehovah's Witnesses teach as to the grand theme of the Bible is unique, has a universal appeal and makes perfect sense to honest hearted individuals, but convincing evidence for God doesn't come strictly from something written in a book or by studying nature for evidence of intelligent design.

    The implication here is that one is not an honest hearted individual if the Bible doesn't make perfect sense to them.

    And as a side note, evidence of an intellegent designer from nature in no way proves the Bible correct. That assumption is so far out in left field I don't even know how to respond to it really.

    -Sab

  • alice.in.wonderland
    alice.in.wonderland

    “Alice...
    Im not gonna jump on the band wagon and bash you. Instead I would like to ask you something.”

    You say this like you're bestowing some sort of privilege on me. I don't care if you bash me or not. In the context of this forum all this does is enforce in my mind how disgusting someone's personality has become since they left the truth and not to follow suit. It's not like them leaving has done any good for their inner self.

    80% of the posts here personal attacks and the remaining 15% are mostly just intellectual claptrap where people are citing things they obviously doesn't actually understand. Even a few questions or statements reveal the fact that they can't follow any of the logic involved which then of course bring on the personal attacks....

    Only about 5% are quality discussions (e.g. TD, Leolaia).

    “-Why does the WT focus on being different so much?

    I look at the org. as a person. A macro. This seems like a person that is trying real hard to stand out because of low self esteem.”

    What do you mean “different?”

    Different here would mean not sinking to the low sink of debauchery that others do and avoid lying and attacks as a substitute for productive discussion.

    Because you do not continue running with them in this course to the same low sink of debauchery, they are puzzled and go on speaking abusively of you. 1 Peter 4:4

    If others speak abusively (bashing as you say), that doesn't bother my self-esteem at all, it just clarifies the prior point I made.

  • tec
    tec

    "We do not claim to be inspired of God. The veiws stated in the following text are the work of man. Although we try to not deviate from Gods word we sometimes make mistakes and stress the importance of testing our ideas. You are ultimatley responsable to God and should never follow the words of man. We welcome new ideas and encourage you to dispute any of our teachings. Please send letters to_____".

    Very well said. This is actually what I thought they did stand for when I began my bible study. Took a couple years to figure out that it wasn't really true after all.

    But the apparent honesty in this - we try our best but make mistakes (as my study teacher told me) - is one of the biggest things that appealed to me.

    I want to feel like I am not being humble and that God will make it right. I should have more patience. I cant do it though. I physically get sick. My blood pressure gets dangerously high. So I have to be true to myself. I just wish I had a more clear cut case of what to do. I have met some really awake people. I wish I could gather them up to start a religion. Problem is none of them would agree on things. But this aloneness is not working for me. cant be a dub and cant be in the world. feels so lonley. - Frigginconfused.

    I felt all of this at first too, Friggin. I learned to let go of the need to have everything 'clear cut'. I put my faith and my trust in Jesus and his example. I put myself in God's hands.

    Today, the loneliness is gone. I have peace instead. And that patience that I never thought I could have had? I have that too :)

    You have it harder than I did, I understand. I was never actually 'in' (though I believed) and none of my family was ever in either - so I was 'worldly' first. But from the experiences posted, there are many people who can help you here. You're not alone.

    Tammy

  • sabastious
    sabastious

    Alice, why do you think there is so much hostility towards the Organization on this website? (an in turn you). Because of the shunning arrangment! Nothing more, nothing less.

    If that arrangement didn't exist the hostilities of ex members would almost completely fade away.

    These people are in a rock and a hard place, because they refuse to accept something that they don't believe, plain and simple. No one can blame anyone on this planet for following their conscience, no one. But yet they are, and they called weak, feeble, blind and to quote you: disgusting.

    The WT exiles these people, drags their good names through the dirt, and the has the audacity to categorize them as persecuters when they have something negative to say about it.

    I have gotten my answer to my first question. The answer is that you are not here to answer anything youself, but only to blindly defend Watchtower Doctrine and Policy.

    Farewell, I'm tired of responding you.

    -Sab

  • frigginconfused
    frigginconfused

    Alice. I dont like your tone. I am not some bitter ex JW. I am a man of God. The only reason Im not a JW is because I tested it and it failed me. Who is to say I wont make it back there. But you attacking me wasnt called for. Not very christian at all. You proved my point about trying to be different...

    Because you do not continue running with them in this course to the same low sink of debauchery, they are puzzled and go on speaking abusively of you. 1 Peter 4:4

    If others speak abusively (bashing as you say), that doesn't bother my self-esteem at all, it just clarifies the prior point I made.

    The WT uses this scripture to "prove" they are the right religion because they get spoken abusively of. I think they are missing the point. If they werent so friggin weird and drawing negative attention they might get more followers. But they make huge deals of insignificant things and put people on guard. Being different for differents sake is not the same as being persecuted in a world of wrong when you dare to be the only follower of God. You only have one chance to make a good impression. So why does the WT come off full of it self. Looking down on everyone with disgust.

    JW's are like that kid that had the thick coke bottle glasses and ate boogers and glue. He is a nice and loving kid. So why do the other kids torment him? Because his actions set him apart in a negative way. Not because he is righteous and persecuted. Get the kid some contacts and teach him how to form and maintain healthy relationships and you fix the problem. Going back to the macro... JWs need tact lessons.

    Why dont you try again. This time try to be humble and be the spokesman for God you should be if youre a genuine JW. Do not judge me. Do not be harsh with your words. Just help me understand. Im not asking my questions to provoke. I ask because I care for my fellow man and wish everyone to know God. By the way... Does your local elders know you are on here with us? Dont want you to have to feel guilty inside for associating with apostates.

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