Help with refining these questions for JW's

by S EIGHT 20 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  isaacaustin

  Debator, because the JW is mind-controlled thru an insidious and systematic method. The right kinds of questions are needed to hopefully get the captive to think and see something is wrong with the org. Your question is simply a red herring...so back to the topic at hand..

  S-Eight, I would also press the JW as to what exactly they were teaching prior to 1919 that made them unclean so as to go into Babylonish captivity. I would then show how they were still teaching these indentical things after 1914. Fleshly Israel was only freed after they gave up their idolatrous practices. Why would Jesus appoint a group still teaching the identical things that got them sent away?
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  debator

  Hi Isaac

  Since people on here are taught what they should question and disbelieve regarding witnesses. I think it is an entirely valid question. If a consequence of leaving witnesses means you have to go on various sites to get the info to disagree with witnesses. This would indicate a lack of original thinking and freedom you are all trying to say you have.

  I find people that disagree with witnesses rarely mention anything but learned rhetoric of various internet sites like this one. NGO, 607, generation, mind control (always ironic with regard to their learned rhetoric) being only a few of the main ones. That they do not seem to be able to talk outside of these.
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  Fester

  Here is a really simple one that should throw a monkey in their wrench....

  When Jesus returned in 1914 where did he return from and where did he arrive? Heaven to heaven? Please explain to me Brother Doublefarts, exactly where he was prior to 1914 for thousands of years, and where he is now.
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  debator

  Hi fester

  In a word .... heaven! We have his attention now but his Full return happens at Armageddon and even then it is done from heaven as he will never come to earth as a man again since he is now a spirit being in heaven. He sacrificed his earthly life as a man for the whole of mankind so we could have life through his sacrifice.
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  Fester

  Ok...that doesn't answer my question of "return". He returned from where to where? Heaven to heaven?
• 

  isaacaustin

  Debator:

  Hi Isaac

  Since people on here are taught what they should question and disbelieve regarding witnesses. I think it is an entirely valid question. If a consequence of leaving witnesses means you have to go on various sites to get the info to disagree with witnesses. This would indicate a lack of original thinking and freedom you are all trying to say you have.

  I find people that disagree with witnesses rarely mention anything but learned rhetoric of various internet sites like this one. NGO, 607, generation, mind control (always ironic with regard to their learned rhetoric) being only a few of the main ones. That they do not seem to be able to talk outside of these.

  My reply: This so-called 'learned rhetoric' are WT errors on major points...607 making their enitre self-proclaimed authority crumble. Going to sites to learn is not objectionable...nor is realizing much of what they say is true. There are many, many points the WT is wrong on...but those main ones you mentioned are disucssed because they show glaring hypocrisy, dishonesty, and the emptiness of the orgs self-proclaimed authority/
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  poppers

  Here's some questions you can add that I've always wondered about: How do you know Jesus returned in 1914 if it was an invisible return? What proof is there of an invisible return? How can there be a witness to such an event?
• 

  snowbird

  Faithful and Discrete Slave

  Discreet - not discrete.

  Syl
• 

  debator

  Hi Isaac

  I don't find them glaring at all they speak more of nit-picking. The DPI NGO one isn't even a fault when taken in line with Paul being a Roman citizen the UN of his day. Prophecy intepretation is just an easy target since it is subjective and other christian churches avoid it rather than address it at all. 607 is saying the Bible is wrong and going with secular sources as more correct. Calling them a cult is just a cover-all you can throw on any structured church or organisation, Early Christians are a cult by any list you find on here and Jesus a cult leader because it is such a broad generalised attack designed to appeal to emotions rather than reality. Imperfection of men is used an awful lot "Elder A is bad therefore all witnesses are bad!"

  Main scriptural doctrine of witnesses is generally left alone since it's biblical truthfulness is easy to see.

  That they cannot find big reasons to go against witnesses and have to dig out the nit-picking ones shows they need learned rhetoric to bolster their choice of no longer being a witness.
• 

  isaacaustin

  Debator:

  Hi Isaac

  I don't find them glaring at all they speak more of nit-picking.

  My reply: Of course you don't- you are mind-controlled by the cult.

  Debator:

  The DPI NGO one isn't even a fault when taken in line with Paul being a Roman citizen the UN of his day.

  My reply: Totally irrelevant.

  Debator said:

  Prophecy intepretation is just an easy target since it is subjective and other christian churches avoid it rather than address it at all.

  My reply: Some avoid, some do not...red herring to distract from the fact that the WT prophecies falsely.

  Debator:

  607 is saying the Bible is wrong and going with secular sources as more correct.

  My reply: I think you meant to type '586/7', and no, it is only saying the WT is wrong. Bible history agrees with 586/7...only the WT's 7 Gnetile Times doctrine crumbles.

  Debator:

  Calling them a cult is just a cover-all you can throw on any structured church or organisation, Early Christians are a cult by any list you find on here and Jesus a cult leader because it is such a broad generalised attack designed to appeal to emotions rather than reality. Imperfection of men is used an awful lot "Elder A is bad therefore all witnesses are bad!"

  My reply: Not a coverall- a logical conclusion from observation of the control the org holds over its members and the tactics they will use to maintain unity at all costs.

  Debator said: Main scriptural doctrine of witnesses is generally left alone since it's biblical truthfulness is easy to see.

  My reply: Untrue, much of the WT doctrine is false, but discussion on that does little in the way to awaken a JW, since their absolute allegiance is to the source promulgating those doctrines. The WT is wrong on just about all their doctrines.

  Debator said: That they cannot find big reasons to go against witnesses and have to dig out the nit-picking ones shows they need learned rhetoric to bolster their choice of no longer being a witness.

  My reply: The biggest reason one goes against the JWs is their claim to being God's channel of truth is shown to be an empty and baseless assertion.