Last Night's Intervention

by brotherdan 154 Replies latest jw friends

  • brotherdan
    brotherdan

    I'm afraid of starting a new post because I've stepped on a few feet here with my last post... But I still love you guys.

    Last night I went home to find my wife and her friend on the couch with the bible, ready to show me how I'm wrong and exercising "apostate thinking". My wife said, "I am unable to fight you with the Bible because you know more than me about it. But K** knows more and will be able to show you how you are wrong.

    So my wife went into the other room so as not to be stumbled by my discussion. It got a bit heated. We mostly discussed false prophecy. It was actually interesting because I heard some defenses that I hadn't come across yet. She was very aware of false prophecies in the past. But she held that they were not prophecies. I asked her to define the term "False Prophecy". She struggled around between someone that sets a definite date and time and says that that date and time came from God, and someone who doesn't correct their mistaken false prophecy. I told her that the society has done both things. Unfortunately all my research and WT articles are at work so as not to cause a problem with my wife. So I was unable to show her direct quotes.

    Most of the time was spent doging questions and her trying to prove that JWs are doing things that NO ONE ELSE is doing. She used the age old misquote from Peter "Where else should we go to?" I tried to make her see that Peter was talking about JESUS. WHO else could we go to? I thought I gave a good fight, but the false prophecy issue went nowhere. It actually surprises me that they refuse to see it. I think if someone would have discussed this with me YEARS ago, I would've listened and seen the truth. I actually wish someone would've.

    One interesting thing happened though. I brought up the double standards that the WT has had through the years. I gave her the experience of the Malawi and Mexican Witnesses that was discussed in Crises of Conscience. She was silent and eventually said...."That really disturbs me". I couldn't believe it. I thought that was the weakest and most unbiblical of my arguments. I begged her to read the book and assured her that it wasn't an angry hate filled book. She didn't commit, but I'm going to follow up.

    Also, I was very weary of talking to someone else about these issues. She is an active faithful JW. I told her that if the elders knew that I talked to her about this I could be disfellowshiped for "causing divisions". She made a promise not to talk to them and that our convo was in confidence. I know that is not 100% reassuring, but it was the best I could do. I still feel the need to make a defense for my faith.

    One of the frustrating parts of the conversation is she kept bringing up that we were the only ones that do not believe in the trinity, hellfire, and immortal soul. I've actually seen how the WT has twisted the scriptures to support these ideas, so I'm not sure that any of these things are false. I think there is a large amount of support for all of them, especially the deity of Jesus.

    Anyhow, this was my first chance to witness to someone. I'll keep you all up to speed with how it goes. Any advice for our next convo would be awesome.

  • wasblind
    wasblind

    "I'm afraid of starting a new post because I've stepped on a few feet here with my last post... But I still love you guys. "

    This ain't the KH speak your mind.

  • leavingwt
    leavingwt
    It actually surprises me that they refuse to see it.

    Have you read either of Steve Hassan's books?

    Have you read Randy Watters' book, 'Understanding Mind Control Among Jehovah's Witnesses'?

    http://www.freeminds.org/psychology/mind-control/mind-control-or-brainwashing.html

    A discussion of doctrine/theology/facts/details/reality is only possible IF the person has a desire to examine the evidence. Otherwise, the 'cult personality' will simply defend WT doctrine at all cost, even specifics that she may not even (privately) agree with.

    WT is not simply a pair of glasses through which they 'see' the world, it is their very eyes. They are incapable of seeing with WT.

    PS: You haven't stepped on my toes. We're glad to have you.

  • brotherdan
    brotherdan

    This girl also said that while prophecies of 1918/1919 and 1925 did not come true, other things happened in those years that fulfilled prophecy (i.e. End of WW1 and the establishment of the league of nations. I've never heard that one before...

  • wasblind
    wasblind

    Brotherdan ,

    Pull out your Sept 15, WT go to page 13 paragraph 8,

    it states that everything they write is from God not Man

    so if she's aware of the false prophecies from the past

    she should know that makes them a false prophet

    Ex JW's need to study up, so they won't be caught off

    gaurd.

  • brotherdan
    brotherdan

    leavingwt: No, I've slacked on reading these. I mostly have to read my books at work (due to being careful around my wife) and I couldn't find Stephen Hassaans book in pdf. I've read a ton of Randys posts on freeminds, but not his books. I need to stop putting this off.

    I actually brought up the fact that JWs are similar to other mind control groups in almost every single way. Obviously she disagreed and changed the subject. But I did bring it up.

  • JWoods
    JWoods
    This girl also said that while prophecies of 1918/1919 and 1925 did not come true, other things happened in those years that fulfilled prophecy (i.e. End of WW1 and the establishment of the league of nations. I've never heard that one before...

    But what difference does it make - if that is not what they prophecied?

  • OUTLAW
    OUTLAW

    One of the frustrating parts of the conversation is she kept bringing up that we were the only ones that do not believe in the trinity, hellfire, and immortal sou

    Wrong..

    There are many who do not have those beliefs..

    "Google" is your friend Dan..Use it to test information..

    .............................OUTLAW

  • debator
    debator

    She should have used deut 18 which is very clear what make someone a false prophet, witnesses simply don't qualify.

    Deuteronomy 18:18-22

    18 I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers; I will put my words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him. 19 If anyone does not listen to my words that the prophet speaks in my name, I myself will call him to account. 20 But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death."

    21 You may say to yourselves, "How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the Jehovah?" 22 If what a prophet proclaims in the name of Jehovah does not take place or come true, that is a message Jehovah has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him.

    This is the bible set understanding of inspired prophecy. Witnesses have never claimed to hear and speak words directly from Jehovah. they have never claimed inspiration!

    All our understandings come from reasoning on already written bible prophecies and chronology. This is not the same. And you cannot twist it to be the same.

    I should warn you that you are correct that Witnesses may get disturb by your learned rhetoric from these forums. It is very unoriginal especially quoting CoC arguments and it will show you up as someone that has bought all the apostate propaganda hook,line and sinker.

    All the things you hear from people that are against witnesses can be reasoned on and seen for the faulty reasoning they are, especially against the bible's teachings which are clear.

    I am speaking frankly to you and I hope you don't take offense but you words show you have made a commitment to the propaganda you have heard off here and are now repeating it outside these forums and so it is already having real consequences in your life and may lead to more.

  • wannabefree
    wannabefree

    In my dealings with my wife, it seems to get down to the trinity, immortality of the soul, worldwide unity, global preaching ... because of these things, any wrongs are forgivable as the light just keeps getting brighter. I guess getting the core thoughts right is all that really matters and since other religions don't have these things right, Jehovah just can not tolerate them.

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