Is there a burning hell???

by sadiejive 30 Replies latest jw friends

noidea

LMAO..
TR,
Is that some of your artwork?? Too funny!!
Seeker

Well, it's the only dusty old book I know that can last unchanged for so long, be scientifically acurate, have archeological evidence for essentially everything in it, and have every prophecy it has ever made come true
There's only one problem with that sentence:
It hasn't, it isn't, it doesn't, and it didn't.
As has been expounded upon ad naseum here in this forum and elsewhere.
As for hellfire, I don't believe it, but if there is such a place, and I find myself somewhere else after death, I will immediately demand to be placed in the fires of hell instead. No rational being could do otherwise, for it would mean enjoying a peaceful afterlife knowing that such an abomination exists somewhere under the control or allowance of the very deity that is rewarding you. It is unthinkable that a decent person could enjoy the afterlife knowing this was happening, and I would insist on joining the suffering as an act of protest.
JanH

adonai,
Well, it's the only dusty old book I know that can last unchanged for so long
Depends on what you mean by "so long". The NT is been reconstructed based on mss back to the 4th century, so changes since then have been corrected. There is much evidence of tampering and changes. Some are known, some aren't. Portions of entire books are unintellgeble today, no doubt since parts are lost (eg. Songs) Most Bible books have gone through serious redaction; some has rendered sections say the opposite of what they intended (like Elihu's speech being interjected in the tale about Job).
be scientifically acurate
This is pretty far out to lunch. The Bible authors didn't even know the Earth was spherical! Its authors are fantaiscally ignorant about nature, and they surely can't count or do basic math (check some of the counts in Chronicles for example). It also claims insects have four legs, which is particularly stupid.
have archeological evidence for essentially everything in it,
When I did a course in Israelite religion, the lecturer started by pointing out how badly archeological evidence from Palestine matches the descriptions in the Bible. For example, the glorious kingdom of Salomon, with fantastically inflated figures for its wealth, is a fantasy that can't be harmonized with facts.
and have every prophecy it has ever made come true (besides the ones of the future of course).
Now that is a massive howler. E.g. the Bible predicted that Tyre would be destroyed forever (it is still there) and that Egypt would be vacant for a generation (never happened). In fact, I have previously challenged believers to point to a single specific prophecy we know was uttered before the event, and that can be demonstrated to be fulfilled. Of course, no such thing exists.
- Jan
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gilwarrior

Hell is not having sex for 28 years!!!!!!!!!!
TheRecordCollector

Ideally, it would be nice to think that there is no literal place known as "Hell". But I'm not willing to take that chance.
Hell was not created for man, but for Satan & his demons (& those who follow his deceptive way).
I may be wrong, but what if I'm not?
All I know is what the 1611 KJV says about it.
I do not believe in Pergatory, or "soul-sleep".
The rich man talked to Abraham across the impassable gulf (Luke 16:19-31).
Moses and Elijah talked with Jesus on the mount of transfiguration (Matt chapter 17).
Jesus said to the repentant thief : TODAY thou shalt be with me in paradise" (Luke 23:43).
Also see Hebrews 12:1 conserning witnesses who are watching us.
The rich man in Luke 16 didn't have a second chance.
"It is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgement."
(Hebrews :9:27)
Also see 2 Cor:5:10. See the description of the final judgement in Rev:20:11-15; also John:5:28-29. Heaven and Hell are both eternal.
Nothing in scripture about a period of probation, another chance, for those who die unrepentant.
"TODAY if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts" (Heb.3:7-8)
Yes, Jehovah IS a God of love, but the scriptures WARN US of hell.
He lets US make the decicion of which road we will choose.
Yes, I would like to think that there is no literal burning hell... I'm sorry, But I'm a REALIST.
willy_think

Ignatius of Antioch
Corrupters of families will not inherit the kingdom of God. And if they who do these things according to the flesh suffer death, how much more if a man corrupt by evil teaching the faith of God for the sake of which Jesus Christ was crucified? A man become so foul will depart into unquenchable fire: and so will anyone who listens to him
(Letter to the Ephesians 16:1–2 [A.D. 110]).
Second Clement
If we do the will of Christ, we shall obtain rest; but if not, if we neglect his commandments, nothing will rescue us from eternal punishment" (Second Clement 5:5 [A.D. 150]).
"But when they see how those who have sinned and who have denied Jesus by their words or by their deeds are punished with terrible torture in unquenchable fire, the righteous, who have done good, and who have endured tortures and have hated the luxuries of life, will give glory to their God saying, ‘There shall be hope for him that has served God with all his heart!’
(ibid., 17:7).
Justin Martyr
No more is it possible for the evildoer, the avaricious, and the treacherous to hide from God than it is for the virtuous. Every man will receive the eternal punishment or reward which his actions deserve. Indeed, if all men recognized this, no one would choose evil even for a short time, knowing that he would incur the eternal sentence of fire. On the contrary, he would take every means to control himself and to adorn himself in virtue, so that he might obtain the good gifts of God and escape the punishments
(First Apology 12 [A.D. 151]).
We have been taught that only they may aim at immortality who have lived a holy and virtuous life near to God. We believe that they who live wickedly and do not repent will be punished in everlasting fire[/quot] (ibid., 21).
[quoet][Jesus] shall come from the heavens in glory with his angelic host, when he shall raise the bodies of all the men who ever lived. Then he will clothe the worthy in immortality; but the wicked, clothed in eternal sensibility, he will commit to the eternal fire, along with the evil demons
(ibid., 52).
The Martyrdom of Polycarp
Fixing their minds on the grace of Christ, [the martyrs] despised worldly tortures and purchased eternal life with but a single hour. To them, the fire of their cruel torturers was cold. They kept before their eyes their escape from the eternal and unquenchable fire
(Martyrdom of Polycarp 2:3 [A.D. 155]).
Mathetes
When you know what is the true life, that of heaven; when you despise the merely apparent death, which is temporal; when you fear the death which is real, and which is reserved for those who will be condemned to the everlasting fire, the fire which will punish even to the end those who are delivered to it, then you will condemn the deceit and error of the world
(Letter to Diognetus 10:7 [A.D. 160]).
Athenagoras
[W]e [Christians] are persuaded that when we are removed from this present life we shall live another life, better than the present one. . . . Then we shall abide near God and with God, changeless and free from suffering in the soul . . . or if we fall with the rest [of mankind], a worse one and in fire; for God has not made us as sheep or beasts of burden, a mere incidental work, that we should perish and be annihilated
(Plea for the Christians 31 [A.D. 177]).
Theophilus of Antioch
Give studious attention to the prophetic writings [the Bible] and they will lead you on a clearer path to escape the eternal punishments and to obtain the eternal good things of God. . . . [God] will examine everything and will judge justly, granting recompense to each according to merit. To those who seek immortality by the patient exercise of good works, he will give everlasting life, joy, peace, rest, and all good things. . . . For the unbelievers and for the contemptuous, and for those who do not submit to the truth but assent to iniquity, when they have been involved in adulteries, and fornications, and homosexualities, and avarice, and in lawless idolatries, there will be wrath and indignation, tribulation and anguish; and in the end, such men as these will be detained in everlasting fire
(To Autolycus 1:14 [A.D. 181]).
Irenaeus
[God will] send the spiritual forces of wickedness, and the angels who transgressed and became apostates, and the impious, unjust, lawless, and blasphemous among men into everlasting fire
(Against Heresies 1:10:1 [A.D. 189]).
The penalty increases for those who do not believe the Word of God and despise his coming. . . . [I]t is not merely temporal, but eternal. To whomsoever the Lord shall say, ‘Depart from me, accursed ones, into the everlasting fire,’ they will be damned forever
(ibid., 4:28:2).
Tertullian
After the present age is ended he will judge his worshipers for a reward of eternal life and the godless for a fire equally perpetual and unending
(Apology 18:3 [A.D. 197]).
Then will the entire race of men be restored to receive its just deserts according to what it has merited in this period of good and evil, and thereafter to have these paid out in an immeasurable and unending eternity. Then there will be neither death again nor resurrection again, but we shall be always the same as we are now, without changing. The worshipers of God shall always be with God, clothed in the proper substance of eternity. But the godless and those who have not turned wholly to God will be punished in fire equally unending, and they shall have from the very nature of this fire, divine as it were, a supply of incorruptibility
(ibid., 44:12–13).
Hippolytus
Standing before [Christ’s] judgment, all of them, men, angels, and demons, crying out in one voice, shall say: ‘Just is your judgment!’ And the righteousness of that cry will be apparent in the recompense made to each. To those who have done well, everlasting enjoyment shall be given; while to the lovers of evil shall be given eternal punishment. The unquenchable and unending fire awaits these latter, and a certain fiery worm which does not die and which does not waste the body but continually bursts forth from the body with unceasing pain. No sleep will give them rest; no night will soothe them; no death will deliver them from punishment; no appeal of interceding friends will profit them
(Against the Greeks 3 [A.D. 212]).
Minucius Felix
I am not ignorant of the fact that many, in the consciousness of what they deserve, would rather hope than actually believe that there is nothing for them after death. They would prefer to be annihilated rather than be restored for punishment. . . . Nor is there either measure nor end to these torments. That clever fire burns the limbs and restores them, wears them away and yet sustains them, just as fiery thunderbolts strike bodies but do not consume them
(Octavius 34:12–5:3 [A.D. 226]).
Cyprian of Carthage
An ever-burning Gehenna and the punishment of being devoured by living flames will consume the condemned; nor will there be any way in which the tormented can ever have respite or be at an end. Souls along with their bodies will be preserved for suffering in unlimited agonies. . . . The grief at punishment will then be without the fruit of repentance; weeping will be useless, and prayer ineffectual. Too late will they believe in eternal punishment, who would not believe in eternal life
(To Demetrian 24 [A.D. 252]).
Oh, what a day that will be, and how great when it comes, dearest brethren! When the Lord . . . [will] cast into hell evildoers and will condemn our persecutors to the eternal fire and to punishing flame!
(Letters 58:10 [A.D. 253]).
Lactantius
[T]he sacred writings inform us in what manner the wicked are to undergo punishment. For because they have committed sins in their bodies, they will again be clothed with flesh, that they may make atonement in their bodies; and yet it will not be that flesh with which God clothed man, like this our earthly body, but indestructible, and abiding forever, that it may be able to hold out against tortures and everlasting fire, the nature of which is different from this fire of ours, which we use for the necessary purposes of life, and which is extinguished unless it be sustained by the fuel of some material. But that divine fire always lives by itself, and flourishes without any nourishment. . . . The same divine fire, therefore, with one and the same force and power, will both burn the wicked and will form them again, and will replace as much as it shall consume of their bodies, and will supply itself with eternal nourishment. . . . Thus, without any wasting of bodies, which regain their substance, it will only burn and affect them with a sense of pain. But when [God] shall have judged the righteous, he will also try them with fire
(Divine Institutes 7:21 [A.D. 307]).
Cyril of Jerusalem
We shall be raised therefore, all with our bodies eternal, but not all with bodies alike: for if a man is righteous, he will receive a heavenly body, that he may be able worthily to hold converse with angels; but if a man is a sinner, he shall receive an eternal body, fitted to endure the penalties of sins, that he may burn eternally in fire, nor ever be consumed. And righteously will God assign this portion to either company; for we do nothing without the body. We blaspheme with the mouth, and with the mouth we pray. With the body we commit fornication, and with the body we keep chastity. With the hand we rob, and by the hand we bestow alms; and the rest in like manner. Since then the body has been our minister in all things, it shall also share with us in the future the fruits of the past
(Catechetical Lectures 18:19 [A.D. 350]).
The Great and Powerful Oz:
pay no attention to the man behind the curtain
anewperson

HELL - WHAT'S THE REAL TRUTH ABOUT IT? The main views of hell are that it is literally an after death place of fire, symbolic for the condition of sleeping in death, or symbolic of the lonely condition of not being allowed access to God after death. Most churches in general teach literal fire, most in the adventist family (WWCG, JWs, SDA) teach sleeep, and most Methodists teach inacessibility. In any case it is unpleasant and wicked persons are to fear it.
At that there are additional views or various modified views of hell. For example one is that although fire or the potential sensation of it is itself eternal, God will not necessarily make even a wicked person feel it forever but allow him at least one more chance to improve his condition, unless perhaps in the case of a very very few persons who were so terribly wicked despite being of clear mind that they offended God's own Holy Spirit.
Regardless, no true Christian wants anything but approval from God, and it is comforting to know that Christ notes that God wants two things from us, namely to actively show love for other people as well as God. As Matthew 22:37 puts it:
Jesus replied: "`Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: `Love your neighbor as yourself.'
This will further remind us for example of the story of the Widow's Mite, the Good Samaritan, the hospitality of Dorcas, Christ healing the sick and feeding the hungry. Acts of kindness, of neighborly love. We can act similarly, but note that Christ says we are to kindly treat even persons who do not love us (Mt 5:44, Lu 6:26, 37), and he himself died so that all might live again via the resurrection hope. (Jn 3:16) This is the real truth about hell, so how are you doing, friends? . . . Visit our nonprofit Jah Christians egroup at the following website to request more free Bible literature and information: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jahchristian, or email [email protected]
hungry4life

Anewperson I have been a Seventh Day Adventist and a Jehovahs Witness but what is WWCG? Is their one I missed?
Seeker thank you for your thought provoking contribution, I agree with you that if that is the case I will also join the suffering with you.
Anewperson Thank You for posting this topic, I have often thought about trying to find a place to worship with others I even went to a home bible study once but it seems that everyone beleives in hell that way and I simply cannot beleive that it is meant to be literal. It is tearing me in some ways it might even be easier to beleive in it but it just does not go along with what I know of God, after all eternal torment for even 90 years of evil living cannot be justice and isn't that what God is? I am trying to keep an open mind about this balancing out the fact that I have had some pretty heavy indoctrination that says that hell is just eternal destruction (gee guys isn't that bad enough). But I still don't know I enjoy reading all your posts on the subject Thanks
VeniceIT

Does sitting through a District Convention with NO AIR CONDITIONING count?
Ven
"Injustice will continue until those who are not affected by it are as outraged as those who are."
hungry4life

Oops correction: Sadiejive thank you for posting this topic.

Is there a burning hell???

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