I think the critical difference between AZ and elsewhere is that you don't have to have committed a crime to get stopped and grilled elsewhere.
Virgina already has AZ illegal immigration law
by moshe 46 Replies latest jw friends
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Dark Side
And herein lies the difference. Don't you folks get it?? These are people who have been ARRESTED, as opposed to people who have been STOPPED for any given infraction. These are not cops on the street checking status.
Beksie, you have no idea what you're talking about. That goes for a whole lot of other people on this board. Why don't you educate yourself, instead of spouting off what you hear? It's best to just say no to Keith Olbermann
U.S. federal law requires aliens 14 years old or older who are in the country for longer than 30 days to register with the U.S. government, and to have registration documents in their possession at all times. The Act makes it a state misdemeanor crime for an alien to be in Arizona without carrying the required documents, and obligates police to make an attempt, when practicable during a "lawful stop, detention or arrest", to determine a person's immigration status if there is reasonable suspicion that the person is an illegal alien. Any person arrested cannot be released without confirmation of the person's legal immigration status by the federal government pursuant to § 1373(c) of Title 8 of the Untied States Code. A first offense carries a fine of up to $100, plus court costs, and up to 20 days in jail; subsequent offenses can result in up to 30 days in jail (SB 1070 required a minimum fine of $500 for a first violation, and for a second violation a minimum $1,000 fine and a maximum jail sentence of 6 months). A person is "presumed to not be an alien who is unlawfully present in the United States" if he or she presents any of the following four forms of identification: a valid Arizona driver license; a valid Arizona nonoperating identification license; a valid tribal enrollment card or other tribal identification; or any valid federal, state or local government-issued identification, if the issuer requires proof of legal presence in the United States as a condition of issuance.
The Act also prohibits state, county, or local officials from limiting or restricting "the enforcement of federal immigration laws to less than the full extent permitted by federal law" and provides that any legal Arizona resident can sue such agencies or officials to compel such full enforcement. If the person who brings suit prevails, that person may be entitled to reimbursement of court costs and reasonable attorney fees.
In addition, the Act makes it a crime for anyone, regardless of citizenship or immigration status, to hire or to be hired from a vehicle which "blocks or impedes the normal movement of traffic." Vehicles used in such manner are subject to mandatory immobilization or impoundment. Moreover, for a person in violation of a criminal law, it is an additional offense to transport an alien "in furtherance" of the alien's illegal presence in the U.S., to "conceal, harbor or shield" an alien, or to encourage or induce an alien to immigrate to the state, if the person "knows or recklessly disregards the fact" that the alien is in the U.S. illegally or that immigration would be illegal. Violation is a class 1 misdemeanor if fewer than ten illegal aliens are involved, and a class 6 felony if ten or more are involved. The offender is subject to a fine of at least $1,000 for each illegal alien involved. The transportation provision includes exceptions for child protective services workers, and ambulance attendants and emergency medical technicians.
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JWoods
I think the critical difference between AZ and elsewhere is that you don't have to have committed a crime to get stopped and grilled elsewhere.
Well, any cop anywhere only has to suspect you of committing a crime in order to stop you and ask for your ID.
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JWoods
Jwoods- the Native Americans could have done very well, if only someone had explained to them the concept of the 99 year land lease.
LOL. At least somebody explained to some of them the concept of the casino.
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Dark Side
Well, any cop anywhere only has to suspect you of committing a crime in order to stop you and ask for your ID.
Absolutely. You made my point.
The FIRST thing during a police stop is that you are asked for your ID. If you can't or won't prove who you are, you are detained until they figure out who you are. Anyone with any brains carries a legal ID, unless they have something to hide.
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moshe
Is it OK to deport illegal aliens? My newspaper had a whole list of ideas for immigration reform, be deportation was not on their list. Profiling? I get profiled by the police everytime I drive into a city outside my home state. If the speed limit is 25mph, I know the police will ticket me for speeding, instead of a resident of their community, so I am careful. Politicians use racial and ethnic data to mine for votes all the time- what do you think Congress uses all that Census data for anyway?
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Dark Side
Is it OK to deport illegal aliens?
What are the options? Amnesty? That opens the floodgates for every lawbreaker whoever commited a crime to expect the same. Why should ILLEGAL aliens get a pass? These people broke federal law. They are invading our country. What about the people who came here legally and jumped through all the hoops to obtain citizenship? What about the people still waiting in line to obtain legal citizenship? What's right and fair?
My newspaper had a whole list of ideas for immigration reform, be deportation was not on their list. Profiling? I get profiled by the police everytime I drive into a city outside my home state. If the speed limit is 25mph, I know the police will ticket me for speeding, instead of a resident of their community, so I am careful.
And I'll bet you carry state or federal identification to prove who you are, am I correct?
Politicians use racial and ethicnic data to mine for votes all the time- what do you think Congress uses all that Census data for anyway?
Well, that's just crazy talk. But two outta three ain't bad, moshe
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moshe
Well, that's just crazy talk. But two outta three ain't bad, moshe
Congress pays for and owns the census data and they decide what questions are on the census forms, too.- they use the census data to set legislative voting districts for the party in power- called gerrymandering, and they set the borders to increase racial and ethnic percentages, if it helps the party in power, or set the lines to dilute the racial and ethnic groups from being able to vote in a block. You decide what party wants what to happen.
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Dark Side
Congress pays for and owns the census data and they decide what questions are on the census forms, too.- they use the census data to set legislative voting districts for the party in power- called gerrymandering, and they set the borders to increase racial and ethnic percentages, if it helps the party in power, or set the lines to dilute the racial and ethnic groups from being able to vote in a block. You decide what party wants what to happen.
I know what you're saying. Giving the government any information that you're not forced to is absolutely crazy or totally naive.
I'm a firm believer in the New World Order and it's agenda. I'm just not ready to announce it publically.
Oops
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AGuest
AGuest - you are opposing immigration law
Well, yeah, dear JWoods (peace to you)... because the "head" of MY "government"... Christ... doesn't impose them in this day and age... and didn't in such a manner ever before. Indeed, strangers were to be WELCOMED into the land. And since ALL authority has been given HIM... in heaven AND on earth... methinks I've made the wiser choice doing so.
, and yet you illogically have posted above the very reason why civilized nations have immigration laws.
"Civilized nations." Hmmmm... Well, yes. I guess one could say that the acts that "civilized" this very nation were... ummmm... a form of "civilization." Funny, though, that the bringing aboutof such... ummmm... civility... wasn't very "civilized." You know what I mean: the "conversion" of the "heathens"... the massacres that took place when they resisted... the mass kidnappings to create free labor... and the conversion of them. Yeah, okay, "civilized." Although... the brute force, torture, coercion, theft, rape, and other acts used to bring about such "civility" would make one tend to disagree that anything about it was in fact "civilized."
I do find it interesting that folks like you rarely have have a problem decrying and denouncing the WTBTS for it's evil, oppressive, enslaving, "murderous" treatment of it's people... but apparently believe that what the founding folks of this country did to it's people (both natives and, well, let's say relocated folks)... to "found" it... and for a good couple hundred years later... was... ummmm... "necessary"...
The Native Americans had no national identity
Seriously. I'm not sure that's what THEY would say. I am willing to bet that had you asked them, they would have told you that they actually DID belong to a "nation"... which nation had a name.
no immigration law
Actually, that's not entirely accurate. They had well-known boundaries between their nations/tribes and it could actually be dangerous for one to cross over into an enemy tribe's territory. They DID, however, have a common law of HOSPITALITY... for strangers... which strangers could stay as long as they wished, so long as they didn't offend the tribe (by taking what wasn't theirs, from food to women to land)... which law was trampled ALL OVER by their new "guests," starting with Mr. Columbus but certainly not ending with him...
, no border enforcement.
Again, you're in error. There certainly were border boundaries... and enforcement. There just weren't surveyed plats and meticulously mapped out parcels...
Your philosophy would place the modern United States in this same position.
My... ummm... "philosophy", if you will... is that the earth belongs to no one man, any more than does the mountains, the ocean, or the air... and it is such attempts at "possession" that have "ruined" the earth. Don't get me wrong - laws serve a purpose: the earth is full of those who are lawLESS, who have absolutely NO regard for their fellow man and so the lawFUL must be protected. However, to impose laws that prevent a man or woman from travelling "abroad" to seek a way to make a living to feed himself and/or his/her family... because of the lawless conduct of a FEW... is inexcusable. There is absolutely NO threat to life... but only to the pocket.
You'll say, "Well, they should hold their own government accountable!" And how do you suggest they do that? Yet, another revolution? Another coup? But then, how could the U.S. benefit? And if you think the U.S. doesn't benefit from the corruption of other governments, you've really got your head in the sand. It may be true that our government doesn't benefit, but our commercialism certainly does.
If they come and commit a crime... yes, certainly, send them home so that they're own leaders can deal with them. But if they're coming to WORK... oh, c'mon... let them work! And as for what they may be taking out of YOUR mouth in order to do so (yeah, right), why not just LISTEN to the words of Christ when HE said:
"Stop being anxious about YOUR souls as to what YOU will eat or what YOU will drink, or about YOUR bodies as to what YOU will wear. Does not the soul mean more than food and the body than clothing? Observe intently the birds of heaven, because they do not sow seed or reap or gather into storehouses; still YOUR heavenly Father feeds them. Are YOU not worth more than they are? Who of YOU by being anxious can add one cubit to his life span? Also, on the matter of clothing, why are YOU anxious? Take a lesson from the lilies of the field, how they are growing; they do not toil, nor do they spin; but I say to YOU that not even Sol´o·mon in all his glory was arrayed as one of these. If, now, God thus clothes the vegetation of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, will he not much rather clothe YOU , YOU with little faith? So never be anxious and say, ‘What are we to eat?’ or, ‘What are we to drink?’ or, ‘What are we to put on?’ For all these are the things the nations are eagerly pursuing. For YOUR heavenly Father knows YOU need all these things. “Keep on, then, seeking first the kingdom and his righteousness, and all these [other] things will be added to YOU . So, never be anxious about the next day, for the next day will have its own anxieties. Sufficient for each day is its own badness."
I am living proof of the TRUTH of these words, dear JWoods, and because of that I could personally NEVER deny another person an opportunity to feed themselves... or their family... indeed, WORK to do so... even if minimally... for the sake of some man-made law that puts up a barrier before them. It is cruel, it is inhumane... it is evil. And its completely hypocritical coming from anyone in THIS country, the very mantra of which is "hard work."
It is NOT just one's government's responsibility to see that a man and his family eats - it is ALL of our responsibility to see that our fellowman has food, if it is within our power to do so. And these aren't asking ME... or YOU... to feed them... but to let them WORK so that they can feed themselves. Even while so many of US... WON'T work to do so. And so, my very humble opinion is that it is quite UNCIVILIZED... in this day and age... to STOP someone from wokring... and thus eating... simply because they are not "legal."
As you can see, I am a bit passionate about this one, so please excuse if my zeal offended; that was not intended at all.
Again, I bid you peace!
A slave of Christ,
SA