What Steve 2 said...what an incredibly controlling friend, but yet so absolutely typical of JW's. The only cure for it, I'm afraid, is to stand up to people like that and tell them to butt out, otherwise you will be a slave to others your entire life. Do you really want to live someone else's version of your life? You only get one, you know. You'll probably lose a friend, but hey, there are 7 billion people on this planet, my guess is you'll find another.
ok, I give up!
by dssynergy 30 Replies latest jw friends
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dssynergy
I know the words she says sound controlling, but actually I know that is not her intention at all. She is of course concerned, and her motives are pure. She is not a meddler, and has not mentioned much until now. I'm just working on how to skirt the issue.
It is tricky because I can go with the "depressed/overwhelmed" scenerio - which sounds good, but will only hold so much water as people find out I'm active doing other things.
There was recently an article in the WT about not judging what will happen to people - that Jehovah is the one who judges hearts and that we do not have all the facts of situations, which I think is in my favor. If people take that to heart at all - it will at the very least provide a reference point that someone can use when people hassle them.
I'll have to think this through carefully....
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VampireDCLXV
This all reminds me of the old saying:"you can't have your cake and eat it too". At least this applies to the friendship thing. Family is irreplaceable. Friendships are a matter of choice.
You can't be an outsider and still have friends on the inside - not over the long term - but I'm sure you already know that. Fading away gets even harder when family lives close by and even worse if family is in your congregation.
You gotta have a long term plan. You need to make friends on the outside and chose them wisely. Join a club or support group of some kind. You really should consider relocating to another city as soon as practically possible; farther away the better. That will take a lot of the heat off. (It's common advice given to recovering addicts to remove themselves from their former associates and surroundings.) I'll acknowlege that having your own business makes relocating way harder. Something to think about. And when you have made that new life for yourself, keep your family separate from it.
Good luck and best wishes...
V665
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Soldier77
I don't know what to say, but I'll relate an experience that happened to me last week.
Last week, one of my so called "friends" (newly appointed MS) calls me up, offers to go for a beer and "talk". I haven't been to any meetings in 3 months now and everyone is in "crisis" mode, i.e. save him at all costs.
After badgering me all day to go for a drink, I keep telling him no, can't make it etc, he shows up at my house after I have told him no. Being the nice guy I am, I say, okay lets go, but you got 1 pint to talk. That turned out to be a mistake. He was trying to convert me to come back, he was treating me like a study coming across with the usual self-righteous, judgmental holier than thou attitude. Even called me a possible apostate for not following the organization.
Long story short, the next day I told him to go f**k himself. I'm waiting for the backlash from that now. lol.... okay, that wasn't good advice, but I've had enough of their bullshit love bomb tactics that only inspire me to beat the shit out of someone.
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OnTheWayOut
Everyone must make up their own minds how much JW stuff to tolerate. If you haven't lost family contact over your fade, then I would suggest just leaving it alone to see if they get used to your not being at the meetings. They may get used to you needing your space or whatever other reasons they think. You don't have to say anything about the religion while they are not used to your fade. Just say your excuses.
As far as JW friends go, expect to lose them and make new friends. If you don't lose some, consider it a blessing. Be very careful what you say around them. They are more likely to turn you in for apostasy than family are.
Until you know family is used to it, don't discuss relationships with family unless you are telling them about an engagement. You are not thrown out for marrying "out of the lord." But never admit to premarital sex. Don't bring the guy home if you could get caught.
It's tough. I think that all that trouble is still better than going to meetings. You should be able to fade to just going to the Memorial (if that) with family. Avoid conversations with elders. Just say Hi and "No thanks, I am fine" when they want to talk.
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ziddina
Mmmm..... Dssynergy, my advice probably won't be worth a plugged nickel, but here goes...
First, some background. I came to a drastic realization about the authors of the bible when I was 7 - 8, that stayed with me and caused me to distrust the bible, to dislike the indoctrination I was recieving from my JW parents. I was hit, kicked, slapped, and once knocked unconscious in their attempts to 'keep' me in the religion. I was bullied into baptism when I was 17, and made the mistake of marrying a JW guy when I was 21...
I went thru a pretty crappy period for the next 10 - 11 years as a baptised JW. At one point towards the end of that period, I became so depressed I considered suicide, and that's when the good ol' survival instinct kicked in. I'd already obtained gainful employment, as the JW man I married refused to work and I was already supporting myself. I'd made "worldly" friends who were much better than any JW ones I thought I had, and as for my parents? I absolutely HATED being around them, as a result of the violence and mental abuse I'd suffered at their hands.
All of this made it reasonably easy to disassociate myself. I'd endured a bad marriage for 9+ years, listening to the elders tell me that I had to be a better 'wifey', a better JW, and THEN "Jehovah" might consider helping me... I snapped. I went out, had a "one-night-stand" to get rid of the marriage - though, looking back on it, I wish I'd just lied about that and made up some fantastical sexual escapade. But at the time I couldn't see that mischevious, fun option, as I was still in that rigid, humorless JW mindset. I was put on "Public Reproof" because I went ahead and got a divorce, but after that, when I realized I could be TOTALLY free, I ran for the exit!!!
Having said all of that, here's something I would have done, if for some reason I hadn't been able to get out...
I would have played "SPY". The ONLY thing I've EVER regretted about my total and clean break with the Watchtower Society, is that I can no longer go back into meetings and act like a 'spy'. I cannot sit in the back, categorize the brothers and sisters, watch for signs of depression and aggression - and believe me, I saw a LOT OF THAT while I was still 'in'. I can no longer be the "fly on the wall"...
Not that I was ever good at doing that, anyway. I've always spoken out far too quickly and loudly when I saw things that bothered me.
If you have a different personality type, you might be able to make a mental switch from being "stuck in the hall" to being a "spy"... Who knows? If you develop a clever way of tripping up JWs and making them think, you might actually help a few fellow JWs to escape.
As to having a boyfriend, well...
There are many JWs who are in good standing who are leading a double life. If a bit of subterfuge isn't distasteful to you, you might play 'spy' again and use some subterfuge yourself.
But when it comes time to establish a healthy relationship with a nice fellow, I'd just DA - if I were you - so you could have a clean slate with the guy.
Hope this helps...
Zid
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flipper
DYSSENERGY- It is tough to fade, or stop meetings completely due to nosy JW relatives or friends- but I found for myself to save my sanity- I could no longer attend meetings . What happens is this : Let's say you stopped attending for months and months. Your neurotransmitters in your brain are getting used to " thinking for themself " in a clear critical thinking way using ALL your mind. If a person goes BACK to attending meetings - their subconscious mind still HEARS the words of mind control coming from the platform and it CHANGES the thought processes in your mind even inadvertently not of your own will. So that is why I consider attending ANY meetings dangerous. It scientifically changes the thought patterns in your mind - whether we are consciously aware of it or not.
I agree with some of the posters that if you could move to a different area - you will have an easier time of fading away from the witnesses. I moved about 70 miles away from where I last served as a JW and I haven't been bothered in 3 years. Initially I was , but I was on a " high priority" most wanted list by one particular fanatic elder ! ( But that's another story ) However IF you move- I wouldn't bother even getting the elders to send your card to a new congregation. Why bother ? If you do- then you'll be on the RADAR in the new territory you're moving to and elders THERE will expect you to attend. In my opinion it's better to just move incognito secretly to a new area and not bother with ANY transferrance of record cards . Why put yourself in their " gunshot range " ? Just my 2 cents. If you want a new life, you'll need to do SOME things privately and secretly. At least in regards to the congregation. Still keep in touch with your family - you need them in your life, but believe me, you DO NOT need the elders snooping into your life. Only causes stress. Good luck, Peace out, Mr. Flipper
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dssynergy
Thanks for all the great advice. I'm not sure what tactic I will finally take. One reason I don't just up and move away is that I have a nephew here who needs me to stick around because his home life is really crappy. So, what I have done is travel a lot - and that sort of keeps people at bay because they don't really know when I am in town or not. And I might work out of town on a temporary basis - which would also keep people out of my hair because they can assume I'm going to meeting down there.
As far as a relationship goes, I would just have to be up front with whomever I am with about my situation and the need to be discreet. I wouldn't have him meet my family until after it was more serious - like we were married. :-) And Flipper is right - if I want a new life, I will need to do many things privately and secretly. I just have to get brave enough to do it, I guess.
I do like the suggestion of being a spy though. I do want to keep in touch with things enough to know what is going on, and what is being taught to my nephew. I think children need moral direction, but obviously, I'm not interested in supporting twisted thinking that might arise from his situation either.
Thanks for the support everyone!
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Mad Sweeney
I know the words she says sound controlling, but actually I know that is not her intention at all.
And that is the power of cult mind control. She behaves with the cult programmed personality despite her true kind and loving nature.
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dssynergy
@MadSweeney: good point about the distortion with which people act. I know that all of my friends, and JWs in general are genuinely sweet, ignorant and naive. And I believe most act out of good motive. That is not to say there are not truly deceptive and gnarly people involved as well. But, the rank and file, for the most part are not in that category.
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