One man's journey out.

by LoneWolf 11 Replies latest jw friends

  • LoneWolf
    LoneWolf

    Hi, all,

    NeonMadman posted an intriguing question in his thread "The Baby and the Bath Water" concerning the paths that we took when we left the Society in order to get to where we are now. Unfortunately, much of that thread was highjacked into something irrelevant to the topic, but I wanted to respond and posted part of an answer on the thread.

    This is another part of that answer. I wrote this some time ago and sent it to a sister who was sticking her neck out trying to get me to come back in. She figured that I was mad and resentful, etc., and that was the furthest thing from the truth. My spirits were bouyant, and this is the story of how they became that way.

    It's a record of my mental state and thinking during all of that time.

    --------------------------------

    To be disfellowshipped is an intensely fascinating experience. You come flying out the door, land in a cloud of dust and slide along on one ear, finally coming to a screeching halt.

    You lay there a few seconds, savoring the blessed silence after all of the crashing and roaring and tinkling of broken glass subsides and finally a thought forces itself into your brain: “Wal, I’m alive. I think.” So you sit up and take stock of yourself. “Nope. No broken bones. My innards feel like they are still there, too.” So you start beating the dust off your clothes and straighten your tie and fix yourself up the best you can.

    About now you glance up and lo and behold, who should you see but old Satan himself just sitting there on a fence rail not very far away. Now, he’s not moving. He is just sitting there with a grin on his face and slowly rubbing his hands together. His whole attitude seems to be “What’s the hurry. Let’s savor the moment.”

    Let me tell you something. It is moments like this that separate the men from the boys. Who among us have not worried about how our hearts would respond in such a circumstance?

    To my surprise, I felt no dismay nor fear at all. Instead, there was a fierce eagerness and even a joy in finding myself here, the strength of which was rather disconcerting at first, but not for long. Here, finally, was the Original Bastard (speaking accurately) who had thrown it into Jehovah’s face that there was no one among humankind who would be willing to serve him, no strings attached. (Job the first chapter.) After nearly fifty years of preparing myself for whatever tests might be coming, here he was and it was one on one. I loved it. My prime reaction was “Come on, sucker! Let’s see what you’ve got!”

    Sounds crazy, doesn’t it? Don’t feel bad, it did to me too. That’s why I said that it was disconcerting. I may be a nut in many ways, but I do positively know that I am neither masochistic nor suicidal. What was it, then? There was one thing I did know: whatever it was, it was rooted deeply in my heart, and it was far more than mere bravado.

    Paramount in my mind were these questions: What is going on here? Why am I not feeling afraid? And what am I supposed to do now? As I took stock of myself, some of this became apparent immediately.

    It took no particular insight to realize that I was alone. Of course, being a loner, that didn’t bother me at all. To a certain extent, I found it amusing. Do you punish a loner by giving him that for which he yearns, namely, solitude?

    Upon further reflection, I realized that according to all conventional wisdom, now that I was ‘free’ from the congregation’s oversight I could not possibly stand on my own. Everyone (including Satan and the demons) fully expected me to either go off the deep end or run frantically back into the arms of the congregation. I didn’t like either one of those choices. Why should I wish to reward Satan for his treachery by knuckling under to his will? And why on earth should I scuttle behind the congregation’s skirts like a little scared rabbit when there might be something I could do right here? Jehovah works in strange ways at times, as the example of Joseph illustrates. (Genesis, chapters 37 through 45)

    Sure, sure, I know. No one can possibly stand on his own. After all, Satan is running around like a roaring lion, etc., etc. (1 Peter 5: 8) Sure he is. So what? That a man cannot stand alone and face this adversary of ours is a crock and always has been. What about Bros. Jones and King, who spent years in solitude in the Chinese communist prison camps, yet came out stronger than when they went in? What about the little Chinese sister who served nearly as many years in those same camps as both of these men put together?

    But even more importantly, why would Jehovah emphasize repeatedly that we are all going to be tested individually? He went so far in his emphasizing of this point that six times in one passage alone he declared that during a certain time of distress, they would weep “the family . . . by itself, and their women by themselves.” A few verses later he went on to say, “ . . . and I shall certainly turn my hand back upon those who are insignificant” during this time of trial. (Zechariah 12: 12-14, 13: 7) Why would he declare such a thing if he knew that it is impossible for us to survive under such circumstances? That wouldn’t make sense at all.

    Furthermore, why should we be afraid? Is Jehovah’s hand so short that he cannot protect us and/or resurrect us no matter what Satan does? (Isaiah 59: 1) I know that you are familiar with Paul’s words to the Romans about this. “Who will separate us from the love of the Christ? Will tribulation or distress or persecution or hunger or nakedness or danger or sword? Just as it is written: ‘For your sake we are being put to death all day long, we have been accounted as sheep for slaughtering.’ To the contrary, in all these things we are coming off completely victorious through him that loved us. For I am convinced that neither death nor life nor angels nor governments nor things now here nor things to come nor powers nor height nor depth nor any other creation will be able to separate us from God’s love that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.” (Romans 8: 35-39)

    If we do not have the faith to take him at his word and then fearfully hesitate, are we not insulting Jehovah and his Son? The example of Peter came to mind. This unheard of privilege of walking on water was given to him, and it was taken away when his faith wavered. How awful he must have felt! (Matt. 14: 24-31)

    But there was another reason why was I not afraid. As I analyzed it I realized that it was because I was familiar with the original challenge Satan had thrown in Jehovah’s face. Satan had not challenged Jehovah’s power. That would have been suicide. What he did instead was to capitalize on the unfaithfulness of the only two perfect humans to have ever lived upon the earth (up to that time). He intimated that these perfect ones had obviously not been satisfied to live under God’s headship and laws. This indicated that Jehovah was not as perfect as he claimed to be and that he had made a mistake in the way he made these humans. In other words, that Jehovah did not know what he was doing, and that he, Satan, had come up with the right solution.

    This would put Jehovah in an apparent dilemma. On the one hand, Adam and Eve had obviously erred deliberately. This would act as proof of Satan’s contention, and cast him in the role of an individual who is merely being honest about the obvious. On the other hand, should Jehovah become angry and lower the boom on this perpetrator, it would cement forever in the mind of all creation the thought that Satan may have been right.

    It occurred to me then that in the setting up of the conditions of this challenge, Satan had inadvertently put himself in a box. How? Because by the very rules of his own challenge, he has given us, as human beings, the ability to challenge him. Should I, or any one else, wish to stand up and challenge his contention or even enter a contention of our own, to whit: that he is a damned liar; what can he do about it? Kill us? He certainly has the power. But should he give in to such an impulse, he loses his argument. Should he lose his argument, he loses the only thing that stands between himself and death as a traitor to his very creator. This puts Satan in his own trap, and we human beings control the trigger! What utterly delicious poetic justice!

    Let’s explain it another way. There is a law case in the heavenly courts. We are not the principals; we are only witnesses. But it is our testimony that is not only important to the case; it is the very core of the case. Even we lowly imperfect humans have laws against witness tampering!

    What an exquisite light this throws on Proverbs 27: 11! Though we may be alienated from our Heavenly Father due to our inherited imperfection, thanks to the very rules of Satan’s challenge itself our heavenly father can issue this invitation to us: “Be wise, my son, and make my heart rejoice, that I may make a reply to him that is taunting me.”

    There is something else that I realized years ago. In the core of the trials and tribulations that come our way there exists a privilege for those who have the insight, strength and wisdom to find it. A short time before her death, I read an article about the Roman Catholic nun, Mother Teresa. It told about how the other members of her order would come to her, worried about some trouble or test that they were facing, and refer to it in those terms. She would gently correct them by telling them that this was not a trial. It was an opportunity.

    Thus it was that it began to dawn upon me that there might be an opportunity here the immensity of which could hardly be grasped. Was it real? Could it be just an illusion? Of course it could. What should I do? How do I find out? Regardless, my heart was singing anyway.

    But how? Where do I start? What is this opportunity that is lurking in the midst of all this?

    -------------------------

    I'll post part 2 within 24 hours.

    LoneWolf

  • NeonMadman
    NeonMadman

    Great stuff, LoneWolf! Disfellowshipping as a B Western, I love it!

    And, a thoughtful account of your spiritual journey. I really appreciate your posting it.

    I do have a minor quibble. When you say,

    Here, finally, was the Original Bastard (speaking accurately) who had thrown it into Jehovah’s face that there was no one among humankind who would be willing to serve him, no strings attached. (Job the first chapter.)
    I must point out that the book of Job doesn't actually SAY that Satan challenged Jehovah in that way; that is the Watchtower's interpretation of the passage. Satan actually challenged Jehovah with respect to Job specifically. If Satan had boasted, as the Society claims, that he could turn everyone away from Jehovah, he would have been an idiot, because it would have taken only one person to remain faithful to death to prove him wrong. And, by Job's time, that had already happened. Abel, Noah and others had remained faithful and not been turned by Satan's wiles.

    But that aside, great post! Thanks again for your insights.

    Tom
    "The truth was obscure, too profound and too pure; to live it you had to explode." ---Bob Dylan

  • LoneWolf
    LoneWolf

    LOL. You're right, of course.

    While he did challege Job's faithfulness specifically, it does show that the subject of humankind's faithfulness was a touchy subject between them.

    And actually, speaking of the Society's interpretation, I don't really have a problem with it. To me this falls into that catagory you touched on over on the other thread: It's easy to throw it all out due to finding that some is bad. In this instance, I don't see any logical reason to.

    After all, isn't it nearly as hard to find someone who is completely wrong as it is to find someone completely right? Even You Know and Fred Hall get a few things right!

    As to Abel, Noah, and others, that's true too. I'm wondering though as to the conditions that would be necessary in providing that answer. Remember the passage about "when that is complete arrives . . ." More on this later.

    LoneWolf

  • NeonMadman
    NeonMadman
    And actually, speaking of the Society's interpretation, I don't really have a problem with it. To me this falls into that catagory you touched on over on the other thread: It's easy to throw it all out due to finding that some is bad. In this instance, I don't see any logical reason to.

    Good point; I was afraid I might be doing something like that.

    Except that this particular point bothered me even when I was a JW. I never understood why Satan would be dumb enough to make a challenge to Jehovah that had already been effectively proven wrong. If he had said he could turn the majority away from Jehovah, it would have made sense to me, but everybody? I just never got that, and I guess I still don't.

    Tom
    "The truth was obscure, too profound and too pure; to live it you had to explode." ---Bob Dylan

  • LoneWolf
    LoneWolf

    Thanks. I've been doing a little research and discussion in this general area and that's a wrinkle I hadn't considered well yet. I'll see if I can locate it. It's been a while and I hope I filed it right.

    LoneWolf

  • LoneWolf
    LoneWolf

    P.S. My puzzlement came from a similar question: Why would he be dumb enough to challenge him at all, if he is all powerful?

    LoneWolf

  • Bendrr
    Bendrr

    If you don't mind, Lonewolf, I'm going to copy this and forward it to my brother-once you get the whole thing posted. You do make a very good point there in the beginning. That by "conventional wisdom" you would either "go off the deep end" or come back to the organization. That so very well sums up the light that disfellowshipped brothers and sisters are held in. I remember a Watchtower article from years ago that said of disfellowshipped ones "they are free now. Free to vote and accept blood. Why, they can even smoke now!..." Outright sarcasm there, but it served to drive home to the reader that when one is disfellowshipped their life turns into Sodom and Gommorah.
    In reality, that is anything but the truth. We don't rush out to participate in every possible "sin" and "wrongdoing". Sure, we're not "pure and innocent", but not in any way as debased and "wallowing in the mire" as portrayed.
    The whole concept of shunning is just plain evil in my opinion. To me, it flies in the face of Jesus' ransom sacrifice that the JW's hold so dear. Whatever we did to leave the Empire pales in comparison to what we learn in The Gospels. Jesus didn't shun anyone. He ate dinner with tax collectors and prostitutes, and I'd be willing to bet he crashed at their pads too! I can picture him cringing every time a JW shuns a df'd person. How that must hurt him!
    Thanks for the post, and if its ok with you I'm going to forward a copy to my brother and a few others.
    Mike.

    "You can't have everything, where would you put it?" -- Steven Wright

  • D wiltshire
    D wiltshire

    LW and NMM,
    This is a good question:

    Why would he be dumb enough to challenge him at all, if he is all powerful?

    God and spirit creatures live in the spirit realm I think we can call it a different dimension or dimensions.

    They live outside our 4 dimensions so I don't think the answer would follow our 4 dimensional reasoning.

    All we know is he opposses God, he sins, he cause problems for humankind, he's cruel, he's full of pride, he ruller of the demons, and some other things mentioned in the Bible.

    Other than he's prideful it's hard to say what satan is trying to acomplish. I'm sure if we use our imagination we can come up with all sorts of motives or what-nots.

    Since time is our fourth dimension are those who live in the spirit realm subject to time? What are the other dimensions like in which they live?
    These 2 questions we don't know the answer to.,so I would think if we don't know the answer to these questions it would be hard to come up with a diffinitive answer as to what Satan's motives are.

    I like asking questions like these,.. they make life so interesting.

    If someone lived a trillion X longer than you, and had a billion X more reasoning ability would he come to the same conclusions as you?
  • SixofNine
    SixofNine

    Lonewolf, do you also post here under the name Shelby?

  • LoneWolf
    LoneWolf

    Hi, all,

    SixofNine --- No, I only use LoneWolf, unless the subject is one that the Society would get riled about, then I add my real name.

    It's meant as a challenge. There policy of intimidation outrages me. What does any outfit that calls itself christian doing with something like that? It's anything but christian, and if they want to make my day, come on.

    D wiltshire --- I concur. There is much that we don't know and don't even imagine. I've always wondered about time too. Did Jehovah invent it or . . .? According to some of the passages in scripture the angels apparently are subject to it.

    I approach these things in two ways: The first is patterned after quantum theory. When one cannot determine where or what something is, then analyze its parameters and treat them as though it was the quantity. For instance, the saying at the bottom of your post is right on. If we crank that in to our figuring, then it changes our whole method of thinking. We expect the incredible and are willing to consider the impossible in new lights.

    Secondly, if we are to give Jehovah an answer, then the things necessary will be within our ability to comprehend, if we have the courage to reach for them. Again, to illustrate, think back to when we first looked at Algebra. All those X's and other unknowns scared most of us to death and we were ready to throw in the towel before we even started. To most of us who succeeded, the gaining of the courage to try was the hard part. We don't want to psych ourselves out.

    As to what Satan is trying to accomplish, you probably know that the Bible says that he is merely trying to survive. This whole subject is something I've dug into a great deal and is one of the things that I was speaking of when I said that I've come up with some answers that were satisfying. By that I do not mean that they are THE answer, but rather that I feel that I've been making good progress on them.

    I love these kinds of questions too.

    Bendrr --- You're more that welcome to use these things in any way you wish. All I ask is that if you make a million dollars of them, lend me a little bit.

    I certainly agree on the shunning bit. What about the passage that tells us to encourage those who have been counselled so that they won't be overly sad? The whole things a crock.

    LoneWolf

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