Do you REALLY believe Ezekiel laid seige to a brick 390 days?

by Terry 91 Replies latest watchtower bible

Terry

"Pilgrims" crawl on bloody knees, sometime for miles... sometimes over shards of glass/pottery... to revere the Virgin Mary. And for centuries (if not millenia), zealots have been known to mutilate their bodies, including whipping themselves to a bloody pulp, in demonstration of pennance and other demonstrations of... ummmm... piety.
Yet, a man sleeps his left side for 390 days (then for 40 on my right), while facing a model of a city under siege that he built out of a clay tile and some sticks, rocks and an iron pan...
Personally, I don't think it is physically possible to follow the seige instructions because of the way the human body is made and the exercise it needs.
Further, what manner of medeival torture could compare to God's little shadow play?
I'm glad you cited the "Pilgrims who crawl on bloody knees". They are mentally ill people; surely you can see this. But, they don't do what they do for over a year continuously or they'd die. I hope somebody would stage an intervention!
This serves to illustrate that FAITH in scripture and belief in the UNbelieveable causes otherwise really wonderful people to abandon the stability of reasonable thought and plunge into the deep end of UN-thinking acceptance of cruelty.....just because God sanctions it.
The people in Jim Jones little paradise followed his orders to drink poisoned Kool-Aid and gave it their own beloved children FOR THE SAME REASON as YOU accept this Ezekiel passage as totally moral and justifiable.
PLEASE give this some thought!!
Terry

I don't know why this passage is such a big deal. If Ezekiel did it, then he did it to make a point. The brick was symbolic of Israel, and he was protesting what was happening. Since he was a prophet, he made a rather potent point. As Aguest says, people even now do far more difficult and 'crazy seeming' things for their faith. What about hunger strikes and things like that? People do things that nearly kill them to make their protests and their voices heard.
And I agree that he would have had to have some time to get up and move around to take care of 'bodily functions', or he could have had a few followers take care of everything for him.
Tammy
I don't think you COULD do this even if you tried.
Would you ask anybody you CARE about to do this very thing if it were for a really good cause? Would it be cruel to do so?
Further, what GOOD did this do as far as Israel was concerned? Who did it help, benefit or educate?
Apologists will accept anything, apparently without blinking an eye! Yipes!
An intervention is needed!!
PSacramento

I am confused, are we debating whether it is possible for someone to sleep on one side of his body for 390 days ?
Cause most of us do just that, sure we toss and turn a bit, some more thanothers, but many just sleep either on one side or the other, or on their backs or fronts.
booby

I think it is whether being tied up or not tied up is the better solution for deep rem sleep. Oh and I just had a thought that as the Ezekial class (just made that up) the witnesses are in that situation. All tied up and asleep as they keep on the watch.
myelaine

hello!
the differece between human excrement and cow dung is enormous...(no pun intended)
humans eat their "food" and it's gone...it's poop!
cows eat their "food" and it is brought back up and chewed again(cud)...the cow is a ruminating animal with 3-4 stomachs!...ruminate means to muse upon or meditate on!
how much and how many times has the WTBTS meditated on their doctrine?...or do they keep on excreting variations of "human waste"?
...moo!...
love michelle
AGuest

Personally, I don't think it is physically possible to follow the seige instructions because of the way the human body is made and the exercise it needs.
Not to say that he didn't get exercise, but I think John McCain and other prisoners of war would disagree with you, dear Terry (peace to you!).
I think what folks are missing is that Ezekiel was basically under "house arrest" (may you all have peace!). He was told to go shut himself up in his house, but that they were going to come and bind him (and such bonds would be in a way where he could only lay on one side of his body). He wouldn't be able to speak to them, but pretty much only lay down and stare at the model of "Jerusalem." Could he get up and relieve himself? Why wouldn't he have been able to, even bound? The U.S. has criminals and other prisoners who are shackled hand and foot. Yet, they manage to "shuffle" to the head, when they need to.
The account is simply showing how a prophet spent a little over a year bound inside his home, with such bindings permitting him to lay on only one side of his body at a time. Meaning, he couldn't turn over and lay on the other side; his bindings would not allow it. But there is nothing that says he couldn't sit up when he wasn't laying down, indeed, get up. While it's true that he could eat a little, and drink from time to time... the fact that he had to bake his bread over a fire (on animal dung, yes, thank you, dear WMF - peace to you!) shows he had to get UP... while perhaps not frequently... at least from time to time. Like prisoners do.
I bid you all peace... and a bit more of an open heart, if not open eyes... so that you can "see" what's actually going on in the account...
A slave of Christ,
SA
Terry

Not to say that he didn't get exercise, but I think John McCain and other prisoners of war would disagree with you, dear Terry (peace to you!).
I think what folks are missing is that Ezekiel was basically under "house arrest" (may you all have peace!). He was told to go shut himself up in his house, but that they were going to come and bind him (and such bonds would be in a way where he could only lay on one side of his body).
Interesting how you compare the vile torture of a prisoner of war with merely following the instructions of the God of love!
Nice contrast for us to ruminate over.
Tell me who witnessed this "demonstration". Who understood it's "meaning"? Who benefitted in any way?
In other words--if you are simply going to swallow this cockamamie story BECAUSE it appears in the "holy" bible---and you are going to apologize it into the realm of possibility---please go all the way and tell us WHY THIS WAS NECESSARY??
PSacramento

Some commentaries view what Ezekiel went through as an analogy of what Isreal was going to go through/went through.
I think the issue may be WHY did God tell Ezekiel to do it and why did Ez do it and could he have done it.
Well, testing and "forging" prophets is a common theme in the OT so that is one thing.
Why did EZ do it and could he have done it?
Ok, allow mw to use an analogy from something I hold very dear, Martial arts.
As some of you know, I have been doing MA for over 30 years and in that time I have done some rather esoteric training methods.
In "kung fu" there are some systems that have "kungs" or special skills and these skills require special training regimes, Iron Hand training is one of them and a very popular one, the infamous "iron palm".
The regime is a ywo year regime ( or 3 depending on the method) and it involves, in a nut shell, hitting your hand on a bag made of various materials, getting either progressevly harder ( Beans-stone-steel) or if you have priosr MA training, going right to steel.
You do this everyday, 2X a day for 2 years,each session has special breathing exercises and a special liniment is used to help heal the hand and each session lasts from 30 min to 45 and whiel you are not suppose to hit the bag hard, just let gravity do the work, it hurts ( try dropping the back of your hand on pile of rocks and see how much fun it is).
You are also suppose to abstain from "jing emmisions"m which is ejaculation for you non chinese, LOL!
The abstaining is only for 100 days typically, but there is a limit to it even after the 100 days, depending on your age.
My point?
A person is willing to, for over 700 days, bang his hand against a very hard surface, twice a day, each time over 30 min ( the number of strikes per surface of hand differs but is never LESS than 50 per striking surface), get it all bruised and battered, not have sex for 100 days( or at least ejaculate), rub poison on his hand ( all IP liniments contain an element of poison to help "draw" the blood), all in the hopes of having one serious bitch slap !
And this is NOT because a divine, omnipotent being told him, but because he wants to have a serious bitch slap !!
Get my point?
PS:
Yes, IP training does indeed work.
AGuest

Interesting how you compare the vile torture of a prisoner of war with merely following the instructions of the God of love! Nice contrast for us to ruminate over.
Serious red herring, there, dear Terry (peace to you!). Doesn't matter what I contrast, the point is proven. You stated:
I don't think it is physically possible to follow the seige instructions because of the way the human body is made and the exercise it needs.
I simply gave you an example of how it can be physically possible, albeit not necessarily desired or comfortable. I could have used just regular old convicts, but I was trying to use an example of the extreme, one where the binding might be most restrictive. And you get it, you're not that ignorant. You just want to make it look like, "Oooh, oooh, now she's picking on POWs." It's an age old tactic used by your kind when you're assertion/position has been proven false... and you can't think of anything "better" to say.
Tell me who witnessed this "demonstration".
I 'm thinking, the people who bound him? The Jews who saw him? The Babylonians/Chaldeans?
Who understood it's "meaning"?
Anyone who has the where-with-all to take a second and actually read the entire account... rather than just a few lines out of it with the intention to mislead, as you did. Which, I must say, somewhat surprises me (but only a teenchi bit) because that's an old WTBTS tactic... indeed, a very "religious" tactic... which I thought you were all "above."
In other words--if you are simply going to swallow this cockamamie story BECAUSE it appears in the "holy" bible
That it is the Bible really wasn't my point, dear Terry (though it may have been yours). My point was that you took an account (that happened to be in the Bible, but my point would apply regardless of where it was written, even in a comic book)... and attempted to show it ridiculous in its application... without actually even reading it entirely, or considering, based on what was written, that it could in fact BE done. You ASSUMED... well, a whole LOT of things... which the account itself clarifies. That was MY point...
---and you are going to apologize it into the realm of possibility---
It doesn't NEED an apology. It is ENTIRELY possible, and I simply shared with you HOW it was: a man built a model of a city then, after being bound in such a way that he could only lay on one side at a time... layed on one side... facing the model... over an extended period of time. During that time, he baked bread over a fire of animal dung. Doesn't say he couldn't/didnt' get up. Doesn't say he couldn't/didn't relieve himself. DOES say that he ate bread... which it also says HE baked... over a fire of dung. LOGIC says, then, that he had to be able to move SOMEWHAT... in order to make a fire, let alone bake the bread over it. Oh, and he also drank water from time to time.
If, however, he was tied up as YOU suggest (couldn't move at all, not even to relieve himself), then LOGIC says he also couldn't drink water or eat bread, let alone BAKE bread... let alone build a fire.
BUT... you can't "see" all of that logic... because your NEED to ridicule what you don't understand is more compelling.
please go all the way and tell us WHY THIS WAS NECESSARY??
To demonstrate and dramatize to Israel their error... and the consequence. Says so right there in the account.
Again, I bid you peace.
A slave of Christ,
SA
Terry

It doesn't NEED an apology. It is ENTIRELY possible, and I simply shared with you HOW it was: a man built a model of a city then, after being bound in such a way that he could only lay on one side at a time... layed on one side... facing the model... over an extended period of time. During that time, he baked bread over a fire of animal dung. Doesn't say he couldn't/didnt' get up. Doesn't say he couldn't/didn't relieve himself. DOES say that he ate bread... which it also says HE baked... over a fire of dung. LOGIC says, then, that he had to be able to move SOMEWHAT... in order to make a fire, let alone bake the bread over it. Oh, and he also drank water from time to time.
If, however, he was tied up as YOU suggest (couldn't move at all, not even to relieve himself), then LOGIC says he also couldn't drink water or eat bread, let alone BAKE bread... let alone build a fire.
I think you may have me confused with somebody else!
Where/when did I say Ezekiel was tied up and could not move?
Interesting how you compare the vile torture of a prisoner of war with merely following the instructions of the God of love! Nice contrast for us to ruminate over.
Serious red herring, there, dear Terry (peace to you!). Doesn't matter what I contrast, the point is proven.
I asked the question if anybody believed it and I stated I didn't think this activity was possible.
I still don't. There are crazy people in this world---no doubt---but THAT crazy is pathologically unfeasible even for a religious person.
Remarking on the analogy YOU gave about a tortured prisoner of war is not a red herring. It is identifying a situational comparison as repugnant.
You ASSUMED... well, a whole LOT of things... which the account itself clarifies. That was MY point...
I ASSUMED nothing. You are free to demonstrate what I assumed.......if you can!
BUT... you can't "see" all of that logic... because your NEED to ridicule what you don't understand is more compelling.
please go all the way and tell us WHY THIS WAS NECESSARY??
To demonstrate and dramatize to Israel their error... and the consequence. Says so right there in the account.
It is just silly. DEMONSTRATE? I'm sure nobody gave a good whoop-de-doo!
This makes God looks as impotent and ridiculous as when a guy in a white robe with a long beard stands on a streetcorner with an "END IS NEAR!"
sign! It is a cliche'.
Surely the Ruler of the entire universe could do better than this!

Do you REALLY believe Ezekiel laid seige to a brick 390 days?

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