Comments You Will Not Hear at the 08-15-10 WT Study (JUNE 15, 2010, pages 15-19)(ANGER)
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“Keep Conquering the Evil” by Controlling Anger “Do not avenge yourselves, beloved, . . . but keep conquering the evil with the good.”—ROM. 12:19, 21.
OPENING COMMENTS
START OF ARTICLE
1, 2. What good example did some Witness travelers provide?
A GROUP of 34 of Jehovah's Witnesses were traveling to a branch office dedication when mechanical trouble delayed their flight along the way. What was supposed to be a one-hour fueling stop turned into a 44-hour ordeal at a remote airport without adequate food, water, or sanitary facilities. Many passengers became angry and threatened the airport staff. But the brothers and sisters remained calm.
COMMENTS
This is hard to confirm, where? what airline? when?
Witness? Not Christian?
Can people survive 44 hours without water?
Many (how many?) but not all but the majority of non-jw passengers did not became angry............
Parking at convention
My husband and other brothers told me about the rude jws that did not want to follow the direction of the parking attendants jws that would give the finger to the attendants all while wearing their "badge."
Running to doors at convention
*** km 5/01 p. 6 par. 7 Do Good and Be Praised! ***When the convention doors open at 8:00 a.m., some brothers and sisters can be seen running, pushing, and shoving to obtain the “best” seats. Injuries have resulted because of this type of behavior.
Saving seats
*** km 5/94 p. 5 par. 22 1994 “Godly Fear” District Convention ***The problems associated with saving seats are still in need of attention. Again we would like to remind everyone: SEATS MAY BE SAVED ONLY FOR YOUR IMMEDIATE FAMILY MEMBERS AND ANY WHO MAY BE TRAVELING WITH YOU IN YOUR CAR. At some conventions when the doors opened at 7:30 each morning, there was a rush as brothers and sisters entered the building. It was observed that “those friends who walked to their seats in the usual manner could find seats only in the very top section of the arena. Many were saving almost whole sections, and then many of the seats they reserved were not filled.” These inconsiderate practices seem to persist despite regular reminders. Should we not search our heart in this matter and meditate on the principles in Philippians 2:3, 4?
Not following instructions but cutting in line
Two elders were at the elder's school and lunch time came. The elders were told to line up a certain way. About 1/3 of the elders pushed ahead of the others laughing and not a thing was done or said later.
2 Eventually, the Witnesses arrived at their destination in time for the final part of the dedication program. Although tired, they stayed afterward to enjoy association with the local brothers. Later, they learned that their example of patience and self-control had not gone unnoticed. One of the other passengers told the airline, "If it had not been for the 34 Christians on the flight, there would have been a riot at the airport."
COMMENTS
Was the other passenger one of the potential rioters? I didn't see where these "Christians" calmed down the others by any direct action, talking.
If the jws had any food and beverages, they only shared it with each other; not even with any non-jw children.
Besides the one person, who else noticed?
Living in an Angry World
3, 4. (a) How and for how long has violent anger afflicted humans? (b) Could Cain have controlled his anger? Explain.
3 The pressures of life in this present wicked system can make people feel angry. (Eccl. 7:7) Often, this anger leads to hatred and outright violence. Wars rage between and within countries, while family tensions bring conflict right into many homes. Such anger and violence have a long history. Cain, the first son of Adam and Eve, killed his younger brother Abel out of jealous anger. Cain committed this vile deed even though Jehovah had urged him to control his emotions and had promised to bless him if he did. — Read Genesis 4:6-8.
COMMENTS
Are jws forbidden to hate non-jws? Not if they designate them "apostates." What is the true definition of an apostate ?
even non-jw ones? Someone who hates God?
a·pos·ta·sy n. Abandonment of one's religious faith, a political party, one's principles, or a cause.
*** w93 10/1 p. 19 par. 15 “Search Through Me, O God” ***Regarding them, the psalmist said: “Do I not hate those who are intensely hating you, O Jehovah, and do I not feel a loathing for those revolting against you? With a complete hatred I do hate them. They have become to me real enemies.” (Psalm 139:21, 22) It was because they intensely hated Jehovah that David looked on them with abhorrence. Apostates are included among those who show their hatred of Jehovah by revolting against him. Apostasy is, in reality, a rebellion against Jehovah. Some apostates profess to know and serve God, but they reject teachings or requirements set out in his Word. Others claim to believe the Bible, but they reject Jehovah’s organization and actively try to hinder its work. When they deliberately choose such badness after knowing what is right, when the bad becomes so ingrained that it is an inseparable part of their makeup, then a Christian must hate (in the Biblical sense of the word) those who have inseparably attached themselves to the badness. True Christians share Jehovah’s feelings toward such apostates; they are not curious about apostate ideas. On the contrary, they “feel a loathing” toward those who have made themselves God’s enemies, but they leave it to Jehovah to execute vengeance.—Job 13:16; Romans 12:19; 2 John 9, 10.
Wars rage in and between jw congregations; I have seen them.
I saw elders battling outside the KH, I heard from elders about elders meetings that last into the wee hours with elders yelling at each other; I have seen congregations have grudges for 20 years and individual jws not talk to each other until the day they died.
What does Genesis 4:6-8 really say and what does the WTS infer?
How did Cain kill his brother? While the punishment for murder under the Law was execution, why wasn't Cain executed? (Remember David committed murder but was not executed under the Law.) Why did Genesis allude to "sin crouching at the entrance" if the animals were peaceful prior to the flood?
At this Jehovah said to Cain: “Why are you hot with anger and why has your countenance fallen? 7 If you turn to doing good, will there not be an exaltation? But if you do not turn to doing good, there is sin crouching at the entrance, and for you is its craving; and will you, for your part, get the mastery over it?” 8 After that Cain said to Abel his brother: [“Let us go over into the field.”] So it came about that while they were in the field Cain proceeded to assault Abel his brother and kill him.
---------------------------------It is very difficult to find the word "murder" and "David" in the WT-CD; this is the closest, "the kinds of sin that ensnared David in connection with Bathsheba and Uriah."
*** w06 1/1 p. 4 How Good Will Conquer Evil ***And after David discovered that the wife, Bath-sheba, was pregnant by him, he ultimately orchestrated the murder of her husband.
*** w93 3/15 p. 14 par. 4 Jehovah Does Not Despise a Broken Heart ***We may not have been involved in the kinds of sin that ensnared David in connection with Bathsheba and Uriah, but we need Jehovah’s help to avoid yielding to temptation to engage in any gravely sinful conduct.
*** it-1 p. 264 Bathsheba ***Thereupon David plotted to have Uriah sleep with his wife as a cover-up for the adultery, but when this scheme failed, the king had Uriah killed in battle.
-----------------------
(2 Samuel 11:15) 15 So he wrote in the letter, saying: “PUT Uriah in front of the heaviest battle charges, and YOU men must retreat from behind him, and he must be struck down and die.”
*** it-1 p. 590 David ***In desperation, David sent him back to the army with secret instructions to the commander Joab to have Uriah put in the front lines, where he would surely be killed. The scheme worked. Uriah died in battle.
4 Despite his inherited imperfection, Cain had a choice in the matter. He could have held back his anger. That is why he bore clear responsibility for his violent act. Similarly, our imperfect state makes it harder for us to avoid anger and angry acts. And other powerful negative forces add stress in these "critical times." (2 Tim. 3:1) For example, economic woes can put pressure on our emotions. Police and family-help organizations link crises in the financial system to an increase in angry outbursts and domestic violence.
COMMENTS
Be assured that some will not be executed, like David, for their anger and violent acts despite the fact that other Israelites (all Israelites) would have been executed not having the privilege of being the forefather of the Messiah
So how would jws be stressed by economic woes; their faith is supposed to be in God and his provisions?
5, 6. What worldly attitude toward anger might affect us?
5 Further, many of the people we come in contact with are "lovers of themselves," "haughty," and even "fierce." It is very easy for bad characteristics like these to rub off on us and anger us. (2 Tim. 3:2-5) In fact, movies and TV programs often portray vengeance as noble and violence as a natural and justifiable solution to problems. Typical story lines lead viewers to look forward to the moment when the villain "gets what he deserves" — usually a violent end at the hands of the story's hero.
COMMENTS
"many" of the people....like at the KH and the conventions?
Doesn't the bible portray "violence as a natural and justifiable solution to problems" with the eternal destruction of 7 billion humans, men, women, children, babies and even the unborn at Armageddon?
Don't jws look forward to when these people get what they deserve?
6 Such propaganda promotes, not God's ways, but "the spirit of the world" and of its angry ruler, Satan. (1 Cor. 2:12; Eph. 2:2; Rev. 12:12) That spirit caters to the imperfect flesh and is in total opposition to God's holy spirit and its fruitage. Indeed, a fundamental teaching of Christianity is not to retaliate under provocation. (Read Matthew 5:39, 44, 45.) How, then, can we more fully apply Jesus' teachings?
COMMENTS
Didn't God have the Canaanites destroyed down to the last person (at least that was the intent); the people in Sodom and Gomorrah, at the flood, at Jerusalem in Jeremiah's time...wasn't God's spirit behind that?
Do jws think that retaliation against other jws is wrong; what about non-jws? Why are jws not allowed to sue other jws but to sue non-jws?
Picture: Simeon and Levi returned — but after giving in to anger
Good Examples and Bad
7. What resulted when Simeon and Levi did not control their anger?
7 The Bible abounds in counsel about controlling anger and also contains practical examples of what may happen when we do and when we do not. Consider what happened when Jacob's sons Simeon and Levi took vengeance on Shechem for having violated their sister Dinah. They "became hurt in their feelings and they grew very angry." (Gen. 34:7) Next, the other sons of Jacob attacked Shechem's city, plundered it, and took the women and children captive. They did all of this not only because of Dinah but likely also because it was a question of pride, of losing face. They felt that Shechem had offended them and their father, Jacob. But what did Jacob think of their conduct?
COMMENTS
Did you ever wonder when Simeon and Levi learned such behavior...from their family?
Ever been with a jw in the d2d where the person at the door was rude to them who walked away saying that person was a goat doomed to die at Armageddon? I did and more than once.
*** w50 6/1 p. 176 Field Experience ***While group witnessing in Pasadena, California, finding very little interest, I came to a house on the corner. A goatish woman at the door cared more for her religious fodder than for the bread of life, so I went to a small house in the rear.
8. What does the account of Simeon and Levi show about the taking of vengeance?
8 Dinah's tragic experience must have grieved Jacob deeply; yet, he condemned his sons' vengeful course. Simeon and Levi still tried to justify their actions, saying: "Ought anyone to treat our sister like a prostitute?" (Gen. 34:31) But that was not the end of the matter, for Jehovah was displeased. Many years later, Jacob foretold that because of the violent, angry acts of Simeon and Levi, their descendants would be scattered among the tribes of Israel. (Read Genesis 49:5-7.) Yes, their uncontrolled anger brought disfavor both from God and from their father.
COMMENTS
In this case I always wondered why anyone other than Shechem was killed? Why were these other people punished?
But then wasn't God's pattern to kill children for the sins of their parents, or to kill whole communities for the sins of some was a pattern. Under the Law set up later, Dinah would have been forced to marry Shechem since she was a virgin and was raped.
9. When did David narrowly avoid giving in to anger?
9 It was quite different with King David. He had numerous opportunities to take revenge, but he did not. (1 Sam. 24:3-7) On one occasion, however, he nearly gave in to anger. A wealthy man named Nabal screamed abuses at David's men, though they had protected Nabal's flocks and shepherds. Perhaps feeling offended, especially for his men, David was about to strike back violently. While David and his men were on their way to attack Nabal and his household, a young man informed Abigail, Nabal's discreet wife, of what had happened and urged her to act. Immediately, she put together a large gift and went to meet David. She humbly apologized for Nabal's insolence and appealed to David's fear of Jehovah. David came to his senses and said: "Blessed be you who have restrained me this day from entering into bloodguilt." — 1 Sam. 25:2-35.
COMMENTS
David may not have taken revenge, but he had an innocent man killed to cover up his own capital sin, adultery. Do you think that David's pride was involved in this as it was per the WTS in the case of Simeon and Levi? Was David going to kill the women and children in Nabal's household, or maybe take them captive as if they were property?
Sidepoint: Abigal disobeyed her husband, she was not submissive, and this was approved by God. What about jw women today? Abigail also told David what to do, the king.
The Christian Attitude
10. Christians should display what attitude regarding vengeance?
10 What occurred with Simeon and Levi and between David and Abigail shows unmistakably that Jehovah opposes unbridled anger and violence and that he blesses efforts to make peace. "If possible, as far as it depends upon you, be peaceable with all men," wrote the apostle Paul. "Do not avenge yourselves, beloved, but yield place to the wrath; for it is written: 'Vengeance is mine; I will repay, says Jehovah.' But, 'if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by doing this you will heap fiery coals upon his head.' Do not let yourself be conquered by the evil, but keep conquering the evil with the good." — Rom. 12:18-21. FTN
COMMENTS
Does that mean that God accepts bridled anger and violence?
Several jws I went d2d did not make peace with the homeowner. I was with sister that provoked a man by telling him the flag outside his house was a pagan symbol............I'm glad he did not have a gun by the door. I had already backed off his property but she stayed there yelling at him...so you think the elders talked to her....no, they made her a regular pioneer.
11. How did one sister learn to deal with anger?
11 We can apply that counsel. For example, a sister complained to an elder about her new manager at work. She described her as unfair and unkind. She was angry with the woman and wanted to quit. The elder urged her not to do anything rash. He discerned that the sister's angry reaction to the manager's mistreatment had only aggravated the situation. (Titus 3:1-3) The elder pointed out that even if she eventually found another job, she would still need to change the way she responded to unkindness. He advised her to treat the manager the way she herself would like to be treated, as Jesus taught us to do. (Read Luke 6:31.) The sister agreed to try. The result? After some time, the manager's attitude softened, and she even thanked the sister for her work.
COMMENTS
Where in the first two sentences did it say that this sister had expressed any anger. Was the elder saying that the level of unfairness and unkindess at the first job was doomed to be repeated in any other job she got? How did the elder reach the conclusion that this sister was not being kind but still hurt by the unfairness. And what if the women had not softened but continued the unfairness to the point that only her pets got raises or increased the unkindness because the sister was not being controlled by it? Some time...........one year.........two years. Just an example of the advice to women to stay with abusive husbands....
Photo: Showing kindness can soften the attitude of others
12. Why can differences between Christians be especially painful?
12 It might not surprise us when such problems develop with someone outside the Christian congregation. We know that life in Satan's system is often unfair and that we need to fight against letting evildoers incense us. (Ps. 37:1-11; Eccl. 8:12, 13; 12:13, 14) However, when problems occur with a spiritual brother or sister, the pain can be much deeper. One Witness recalled, "My biggest hurdle when coming into the truth was accepting the fact that Jehovah's people are not perfect." We came out of a cold, uncaring world, hoping that all in the congregation would treat one another with Christian kindness. Thus, if a fellow Christian, especially one with privileges in the congregation, is thoughtless or acts in an unchristian way, it can hurt us or make us angry. 'How can such things occur among Jehovah's people?' we might ask. Actually, such things occurred even among anointed Christians in the days of the apostles. (Gal. 2:11-14; 5:15; Jas. 3:14, 15) How should we respond when we are affected?
COMMENTS
"It might not surprise us" because jws think all non-jws are part of Satan's wicked world and doomed to eternal destruction soon.
Is it the accidental actions of jws or the purposeful actions of jws...which cannot be attributed to imperfection. When jws knowingly do what is cruel and unkind to "fellow believers" it is not accidental.
"especially one with privileges" someone who does the cruel, unkind, unchristian thing over and over without any discipline from the others "with privileges" that one realizes there is spiritual danger and the need to distance yourself from the things that can "hurt us" and make us angry as they hide behind God.
It's not that bad things happen among "God's people" but that those who do the bad are not corrected, are elevated, and those that point out the wrongs are punished.
There is a real jump here that jws are in any what like Jesus' followers?
13. Why and how should we work to overcome differences?
13 "I learned to pray for anyone who hurt me," said the sister just mentioned. "It always helps." As we already read, Jesus taught us to pray for those persecuting us. (Matt. 5:44) How much more should we pray for our spiritual brothers and sisters! Just as a father wants his children to love one another, so Jehovah wants his servants on earth to get along. We look forward to living together peacefully and happily forever, and Jehovah is teaching us to do so now. He wants us to cooperate in doing his great work. Therefore, let us resolve problems or simply "pass over" transgression and move ahead together. (Read Proverbs 19:11.) Instead of drawing away from our brothers when problems arise, we ought to help one another remain among God's people, safe in the embrace of Jehovah's "everlasting arms." — Deut. 33:27, American Standard Version.
COMMENTS
Should we pray for those that lie about us and trash our reputation? Should we pray for those that tell us to keep quiet about our abuse and that we will be cast out if we do? Should we pray about those who say they will renovate our house, do a very bad job, and then expect to be paid or we are told we will be cast out if we sue? Should we pray for the brother who molests our child? Should we pray for the jw elder husband who beats us and our children black and blue? Should we pray for the brother who constantly tells us our children will never live through Armageddon? Aren't these people showing by their actions that they hate God?
Being Gentle Toward All Brings Good Results
14. How can we combat Satan's divisive influences?
14 To hinder us from spreading the good news, Satan and the demons are actively trying to disrupt happy families and congregations. They try to sow discord, knowing that internal divisions are destructive. (Matt. 12:25) In combating their evil influence, we do well to follow Paul's counsel: "A slave of the Lord does not need to fight, but needs to be gentle toward all." (2 Tim. 2:24) Remember that our fight is, "not against blood and flesh, but . . . against the wicked spirit forces." To succeed in this fight, we need to employ spiritual armor, including "the equipment of the good news of peace." — Eph. 6:12-18.
COMMENTS
What "good news" does the WTS spread?
How often does the WTS mention the "good news" in "What to Say About the Magazines? not
How often does the WTS mention the "kingdom" in the above? Since 2001, 10 times, 12x9 = 108/10 = 1/year
Shouldn't it be in at least 1 per month?
Is it human imperfection or Satan and the demons that "disrupt" "happy" families and congregations?
Can you remember the ongoing battles/grudges in the congregations you attended? Of course, if these had been non-jw congregations it would have been proof they did not have God's blessing; but with jws it is JUST human imperfection.
15. How should we respond to attacks from outside the congregation?
15 From outside the congregation, Jehovah's enemies launch vicious attacks on his peaceful people. Some of these enemies assault Jehovah's Witnesses physically. Others slander us in the press or in the courts. Jesus told his followers to expect this. (Matt. 5:11, 12) How should we react? We must never "return evil for evil," in word or in deed. — Rom. 12:17; read 1 Peter 3:16.
COMMENTS
So when was the last time you hit a jw? Of course, jws don't wish harm on non-jws or jws, right? The WTS has said that it is only secular laws that have held them back from stoning their rebellious members.--The Watchtower, November 15, 1952, page 703, Questions from Readers:
"In the case of where a father or mother or son or daughter is disfellowshipped [disassociated], how should such person be treated by members of the family in their family relationship?
We are not living today among theocratic nations where such members of our fleshly family relationship could be exterminated for apostasy from God and his theocratic organization, as was possible and was ordered in the nation of Israel in the wilderness of Sinai and in the land of Palestine. . . Being limited by the laws of the worldly nation in which we live and also by the laws of God through Jesus Christ, we can take action against apostates only to a certain extent, that is, consistent with both sets of laws. The law of the land and God’s law through Christ forbid us to kill apostates, even though they be members of our own flesh-and-blood family relationship. However, God’s law requires us to recognize their being disfellowshipped from his congregation."
16, 17. What trying situation did one congregation face?
16 Regardless of what the Devil brings upon us, by "conquering the evil with the good," we can give a fine witness. For example, a congregation on one Pacific island rented a hall for the Memorial. Learning of this, local church officials told their parishioners to gather in that hall for a church service at the time scheduled for our event. The chief of police, however, ordered the church officials to make the hall available for the Witnesses by that time. Nevertheless, when the hour came, the hall was filled with church members and their service began.
COMMENTS
Is it the Devil or human imperfection?
The WTS idea of conquering with the good is to hand a hungry person a WT; isn't that like handing a hungry child a stone?
(Matthew 7:9-10) 9 Indeed, who is the man among YOU whom his son asks for bread—he will not hand him a stone, will he? 10 Or, perhaps, he will ask for a fish—he will not hand him a serpent, will he?
17 While the police were preparing to clear the hall by force, the church president came to one of our elders and asked: "Do you have something special planned for this evening?" The brother told him about the Memorial, and the man replied: "Oh, I didn't know!" At that, a policeman exclaimed: "But we told you this morning!" The churchman turned to the elder and with a sly smile said: "What are you going to do now? We have a hall full of people. Are you going to have the police chase us out?" He had cunningly maneuvered matters to make the Witnesses appear to be the persecutors! How would our brothers respond?
COMMENTS
It was only theocratic strategy on the part of this church; but because the WTS considers all other religions of the Devil; that church was in the wrong. Do you think anyone thought the jws were persecuting them in this situation? What about going from door to door and saying that all other religions were of the Devil and doomed to destruction soon? Might that church have felt they were being persecuted?
18. How did the brothers respond to provocation, and with what result?
18 The Witnesses offered to let the church hold a half-hour service, after which the brothers would proceed with the Memorial. The church service ran overtime, but after the church members filed out, the Memorial went ahead. The next day, the government convened an official board of inquiry. After considering the facts, the board obliged the church to announce that the cause of the problem had been, not the Witnesses, but the president of the church. The board also thanked Jehovah's Witnesses for their patient handling of a difficult situation. The Witnesses' efforts to "be peaceable with all men" had borne good fruit.
COMMENTS
What would they have done if these other people had stayed?
Peaceable? Were jws being peaceable when several cars of jws from outside a small town would converge upon it to "preach" on Sunday (really just distribute WT publications) resulting in the jail being full of jws? Couldn't they have preached on Saturday?
Were jws being peaceable when attendants at a WT convention at Madison Square Garden were directed to have canes and be prepared to use them?
http://www.exjws.net/museum/rowcanes.jpg
http://www.exjws.net/museum/ruthcane.jpg
19. What else can promote peaceful relations?
19 Another key to maintaining peaceful relations with others is using gracious speech. The following article will discuss what gracious speech is and how we can cultivate and employ it.
COMMENTS
Is gracious speech only used by jws when others will hear them? Does it matter to them if God hears them verbally abuse their spouses and children? Do elders care if they verbally abuse other jws in judicial matters because no other human is there to witness it? Do elders verbally abuse each other under the guise of "freeness of speech"? What are jws like at their employment, do they verbally abuse co-workers because no jw would believe the co-worker because they are ungodly? Is all abusive speech yelling, or can people speak in a medium tone but be condescending and judgemental?
Can You Explain?
• Why are people in the world today so angry?
• What Bible examples show the consequences of controlling or not controlling anger?
• How should we react if a fellow Christian hurts us?
• How should we react to attacks from outside the congregation?
* "Fiery coals" is a reference to an ancient method of smelting ore by heating it from above and below to extract the metals. Our showing kindness to those who are unkind may soften their attitude and bring out their better qualities.
CLOSING COMMENTS
Next week, GRACIOUS SPEECH PROMOTES GOOD RELATIONS.
I believe that there are verbal bullies in WT congregations. The kind like this PO said to the elders body, "It's my way or the highway."
Love, Blondie