As a Witness - What did you Notice in How Elders Got Appointed ?

by flipper 68 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  misguided

  When I met my 1st husband, a JW, his dad was an elder. Shortly before we were married it came out during one of his older brother's divorces, that he (his dad) had had a baby with his daughter. According to her (the daughter - and she's still JW, this began when she was about 4 years old, and continued until she got pregnant at 17) sometimes the abuse even happened in field service.

  He's not an elder now...but how the hell did a known pedophile get appointed to an elder in the 1st place if some holy spirit is working upon the organization....what a farce!
• 

  Hadit

  Great points Flipper!

  I noticed that I wondered way too many times how most of them became elders (a few I knew were truly decent and loving people). Most lacked love, they lacked tact, they lacked skills, they didn't take care of their families, they treated their wives like servants and all their wives were alcoholics and taking medications for depression (no wonder!), they were egotistical, misogynistic and chauvanistic. Many of them creeped me out at the way they stared at the other sisters. I remember a sister telling me of an elder who approached her at the hall and was picking something out of his teeth and he said "Ya - I'm just picking the short and curlies out of my teeth" and then winked. PIG! Yes sir Holy Spirit appoints them!

  The whole thing is scary. So many people entrust their lives to these unqualified men who then take advantage of others. They are also privy many times to personal information about people in the hall which is very dangerous considering the history of some of these men.

  I knew of an elder who would seek out depressed sisters who had been abused and on medication and rape them. He would use the date rape drug many times on people as well. The whole thing was so disgusting that it's one of the things that jolted me awake. I just couldn't let it go and it didn't make sense to me that he gets away with this repeatedly from hall to hall. I asked questions but it got me nowhere! They hide and lie. So infuriating.

  Okay - talking about this guy is making me angry and upset so I'd better end my post!
• 

  cantleave

  In my experience all aspects of the guy's life were looked at. Was his family exemplary ? Did his wife have a good field service record? Was he respected by other members of the congregation?

  The thing is, most of this was appearance, a facade could easily be projected when someone was "reaching out". Hours could be fudged, family members could be coaxed to answer up and the guy could suck up to the elders in order gain ratings in the popularity stakes.

  I remember being told when I was an MS that I wouldn't be considered for an elder unless my downstairs cloakroom (which has a WC in it)was kept tidy, as the group overseer often had trouble getting there to use the facilities, as there were always shoes and coats on the floor.

  When I was being considered for MS (in my early 20's) I was told nugget and I should be more serious minded as we occasionally chatted and laughed during the meetings (I was also criticised for my 1980's Perm - god I wish I had the hair to perm these days).
• 

  dozy

  Above all factors , field service activity (or at least reported activity) was most important. I remember one brother who was on the list of possible ms making the fatal mistake of going on holiday the month before the visit so his hours for that month were low - on this basis alone he wasn't appointed as he didn't get enough votes. If he had fudged his report and put down 10 hours he would have been appointed.

  The prospective ms / elder's family is a factor but that depends on the make up of the existing elders. If there are a few of them who have children who aren't JWs and/or have depressed wives then they will tend not to regard this as a factor and the other elders might be fearful of bringing it up as a potential disqualification.

  How they look after their "department" is important as it shows them being tested as to fitness. If they look after the mags / accounts / literature well & brown nose to the relevant elder then it goes down well. Any evidence of any "attitude" is a killer. One brother made the mistake of telling our arrogant service overseer that a particular street had already been worked the previous week in front of the other JWs at a field service group - even though he was right , this was brought up as evidence that the brother had a bad and unsubmissive attitude so he wasn't appointed.

  COs do push for appointments ( some more than others) and it certainly looks good for the BOE to appoint brothers as it gives the impression that the congregation is strong and that young brothers are being encouraged to "reach out". But essentially it is a political decision and something of a lottery. Holy spirit has absolutely nothing to do with it.
• 

  NowAndThen

  Holy Spirit's got little or nothing to do with it. Field service report does. Giving long-winded talks does. Pretending you're holier than the friends does. Keeping a tight lid on your family to the point of crushing every desire for anything but JWdom does. Wearing a plastic smile and looking unusually stern when commenting during WT study does. Criticising the "spiritually weak" and condemning "worldliness" does.

  It's a little bit of the "theocratic" game. Play it right, and you're on your way to the top in no time.

  Been there, done that.
• 

  Bonnie_Clyde

  "When it was decided to re-jig the whole arrangement and bring in an arrangement of elders who were "appointed" through holy spirit. For those original elder positions what that amounted to was all who were servants sitting in a big circle and going from on brother to the next deciding if any would/should be excluded for any reason from a list that would be sent (in our case to Toronto) of ones that were approved locally for appointment in bethel."

  Booby - that's exactly how Clyde described it when they changed to the elder arrangement (about 1972). Although he was in line to be almost the top dog, he decided right then that he didn't want to be an elder. He shocked everybody because at the time being appointed an elder was a coveted position. I remember being disappointed myself. Clyde did accept the position of MS for a few years before his fade.

  Bonnie
• 

  Bonnie_Clyde

  "When it was decided to re-jig the whole arrangement and bring in an arrangement of elders who were "appointed" through holy spirit. For those original elder positions what that amounted to was all who were servants sitting in a big circle and going from on brother to the next deciding if any would/should be excluded for any reason from a list that would be sent (in our case to Toronto) of ones that were approved locally for appointment in bethel."

  Booby - that's exactly how Clyde described it when they changed to the elder arrangement (about 1972). Although he was in line to be almost the top dog, he decided right then that he didn't want to be an elder. He shocked everybody because at the time being appointed an elder was a coveted position. I remember being disappointed myself. Clyde did accept the position of MS for a few years before his fade.

  Bonnie
• 

  blondie

  I was told by several elders that 2 factors were involved, had they been raised in a good jw family and their fathers, uncles, etc., were elders in the congregation, this meant that the candidate was better known than someone who just came in from the outside and had not relatives in.

  Having the CO's support is good. I saw brothers take off the week of the CO's visit and auxiliary pioneer. Supporting elders would make sure their candidate was in the same car group as the CO.

  Candidates would also be scheduled to give a talk on the school, #1 or #4.

  Definitely a case of who you know not what you know. After all, CO influence contributed greatly to Timothy's appointment as an elder, right?
• 

  Mattieu

  All the above comments are true, esp the ones concerning brown nosing and family connections. Overall, here in Oz, the situation is as Man in Black stated - a boys club mentality!
• 

  booby

  I would just like to add one contrasting comment. Just as Clyde of Bonnie _ Clyde made a decision that removed himself from the running shows that not all had arrived at that "prized position" by ass kissing etc. I know that many and in my experience most ended up as elders because they felt it was a "duty" that should be accepted if presented. I also know of ones who held out for as long as they could put up with the derision of other elders innuendo that they were just lazy. Many bodies of elders are always looking for new candidates so as to lighten their own load so to speak. I know that in my own case each assignment was accepted with reluctance and more because I couldn't say no then because I was looking for some kind of glory. Most of being an elder is more a royal pain in the ass then some kind of glory ride.

  Having said that I realize that there is that segment that desire and love that position, and they are the ones that are usually the real "pain in the ass" egomaniacs of the elder world I think.