ZR
Atheist says NOTHING about what I DO believe.
So you admit it's a presupposition? Thank you. Tell us about your "belief". If you don't believe there is enough evidence to know either way, from where I sit, that's called an agnostic.
Definition of Atheist
by ZeusRocks 116 Replies latest jw friends
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Deputy Dog
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bohm
DD: So dawkins is an agnostic in your oppinion?
you still havent stood up to leavinwt's challenge and named one real atheist.
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zannahdoll
ZeusRocks
Good post. I appreciate your definition and I did have it wrong before. I took the definition from both the dictionary and other theists. I think language is fascinating. I always believed, until recently, that being an atheist meant that a person was sure God did not exist (making that a belief in and of itself) and that it was the agnostic who said that there is a possibility for God... With your definition of atheist I don't know why anyone would be agnostic now... (maybe, agnostics, you can clarify why you are what you are?) Also: what would be the word(s) for a person who would claim there is no possibility for God?
Besides, this thread was about theists who continuously twist what atheism actually is to suit their own point of view, because they are either don't understand or can't be bothered to actually look it up.
I have to agree with onemore here: those that look it up would get what you call the wrong definition. I looked it up a very long time ago.
Earlier in this thread you say:
A lot of god believers don't seem to be concerned with what is actually honest and truthful, hence it's near impossible to have any honest conversation as shown by their reaction at being corrected with their flimsy and downright incorrect definition of atheist they use in arguments.
That isn't true of me. When I was a teenager I visited atheist forums all the time to see what they would say and understand. After a year or two of that I felt I heard it all and maintained my convictions in a God. I felt I exhausted learning the atheist point of view. I still have dabbled in learning about religions other then my own, enjoy mythology and stories of all sorts (especially the Greeks), and I have taken a few philosophy classes which I loved. I am always interested in learning what other people think and why they think that way regardless of if they are an atheist or not. I have questioned many things, so far I continue to be Catholic. (we have answers for everything! ) It is just very recently that a friend I love, who is atheist, has opened my eyes further and corrected some of my thinking which was in error. And now I am questioning my faith, I haven't given it up just yet, and I may not. However right now I'm intently listening to atheists and very interested in what they have to say... I haven't been for a long time (since I was a teenager).
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ZeusRocks
So you admit it's a presupposition?
No. You obviously don't even know what presupposition means. Learn the meaning of words before you start using them.
What I do believe has nothing to do with me being an atheist.
You're seem to be comfortable in your ignorance and have no interest in honesty or what is accurate.
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Deputy Dog
bohm
DD: So dawkins is an agnostic in your oppinion?
you still havent stood up to leavinwt's challenge and named one real atheist.
Sorry, I guess I missed that. I did see where he asked PS that question.
Like the bible says, "a fool says there is no God".
My brother-in-law for one (though I've never had this discussion over defining it, with him) claims to believe there is no God. So yes, there are some who take the plunge.
When people tell me they are atheists in books or in person, I always take the statement with a grain of salt. I don't normaly try to split hairs with them. As for Dawkins, he would fit into my definition of agnostic. I agree with PS he's clever.
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Deputy Dog
ZR
You obviously don't even know what presupposition means.
This works for me.
Presupposition (philosophy) From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
In epistemology , presuppositions relate to a belief system, or Weltanschauung , and are required for it to make sense. A variety of Christianapologetics , called presuppositional apologetics , argues that the existence or non-existence of God is the basic presupposition of all human thought, and that all men arrive at a worldview which is ultimately determined by the theology they presuppose. Evidence and arguments are only marshalled after the fact in an attempt to justify the theological assumptions already made. According to this view, it is impossible to demonstrate the existence of God unless one presupposes that God exists; modern science is incapable of discovering the supernatural because it relies on methodological naturalism and thereby fashions a Procrustean bed which rejects any observation which would disprove the naturalistic assumption. The best the apologist can do is to argue that the resulting worldview is somehow inconsistent with itself and therefore irrational(for example, via the Argument from morality or via the Transcendental argument for the existence of God ).
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bohm
DD:
Have you asked your brother in law if he atheistic in the sence of Dawkins or in your sence?
Dawkins = agnostic according to the bible-trained reasoning. I guess that says it all. Lets try to go with your type of reasoning:
Agnostic 1.
a. One who believes that it is impossible to know whether there is a God.
b. One who is skeptical about the existence of God but does not profess true atheism. So which of the two is it that fit Dawkins? I hardly think its b) since i think there is a jump from sceptic to saying God has the same truth-value as ferries, the celestial teapot and the flying spaghetti monster.
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leavingwt
Deputy -- Thank you for your comments. My brain is beginning to melt, so I'll bid you all farewell on this particular thread.
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PSacramento
ag·nos·tic
/ æg'n?s
t?k / Show Spelled [ ag- nos -tik ] Show IPA –noun 1. a person who holds that the existence of the ultimate cause, as god , and the essential nature of things are unknown and unknowable, or that human knowledge is limited to experience. 2. a person who denies or doubts the possibility of ultimate knowledge in some area of study. –adjective 3. of or pertaining to agnostics or agnosticism. 4. asserting the uncertainty of all claims to knowledge. -
SixofNine
- On my honor I will do my best
- To do my duty to God and my country
- and to obey the Natural Laws;
- To help other people at all times;
- To keep myself physically strong,
- mentally awake, and morally straight.
More info...
In addition, the Godless have an Atheist Law ("An Atheist is trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, dis-obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, and irreverent."), Atheist Slogan, ("Do a good turn* daily.") and Atheist Motto ("Be prepared**.")
*or woman.
** for secular armaggedon.
t?k / 