by sir82 28 Replies latest jw friends
Governing Body is a name and hence is capitalized because the Governing Body and Wannabefree says so. This notion is supported by god and his holy spirit.
Strange then, that Governing Body is not in the translated new testament, but holy spirit IS.
EDIT - I guess they could take care of that with a new edition of the New World Translation...
The GB is so alienated from reality. The flock is not close to the GB and the GB is not close to the flock. For example if a GB member died, many of the flock have no idea anymore. No wonder they demand obedience since they are so out-of-touch with the cong.
Effective Leadership & consistent Blind Obedience are the main ingredients for "Destructive Cults".
Most Elders here, know only to well, that the "avg" JW is far from being consistently obedient.
I think you may be missing the point, and furthermore I disagree (so there! )
"Destructive cult" leaders lead by intimidation, by instilling fear, by emotional manipulation. Those are NOT qualities of "effective leadership".
The easily intimidated, the fearful, and the emotionally weak indeed do often "obey blindly".
However, JWs have progressed to the point where the majority of their enrollment are "born into it". There are many 3rd, 4th, even 5th or 6th, generation JWs out there. Their demographics have changed markedly from 50 or 60 years ago.
Just because one happens to be born into a "destructive cult", he is not by definition easily intimdated, fearful, or emotionally weak.
If JW leaders were effective, i.e., if they chose some other method than browbeatings and veiled threats, they would not have the problems they do with:
-- 80% or more of their kids leaving
-- huge numbers of their flock leading "double lives"
-- lack of cash flow (JWs tend to express in their dissatisfaction in ways that are not easily traceable - shutting your wallet is quite effective)
-- fewer and fewer of the "brothers" desiring to reach out for more responsibility
A "destructive cult" which demands "unquestioning obedience" can get away with it for the first generation or 2. Thereafter, the cult has just a few tough options: (1) Go out in a "blaze of glory", (2) fizzle into obscurity, or (3) drop the weird stuff and go "mainstream".
JWs became destructive during Rutherford's time. A generation or 2 later, they tried for a version of "blaze of glory" with their 1975 predictions. They had a chance to go to option 3 during the late 70's, when Ray Franz & others who were reform-minded had influence. But of course all that was quashed in the early 80's.
Ever since then, JWs are stubbornly clinging to their beliefs and methods, while the world passes them by. Every day they delay taking decisive action brings them closer to outcome (2).
Very well stated, Sir82. Current leadership would rather see it fizzle, IMHO, than face the unknown terror (for them) of an honest reformation.
They are all pretty old, and think they have enough money and momentum to live off it as it is until they die.
Sola said:
Effective Leadership & consistent Blind Obedience are the main ingredients for "Destructive Cults".
In fact, those are not the prominent traits of what experts consider cults.
Bigger factors: No criticism of leadership without shunning or punishment (check), no dignified way to leave the religion (check), beliefs may not be questioned without sanction (check), behavior/environment/thought/information control, CHECK.
The WT is not as blatant a cult as say, COG, but they have characteristics that line right up with traits of a dangerous cult.
It has been addressed but it bears repeating:
Effective Leadership & consistent Blind Obedience are the main ingredients for "Destructive Cults" is an untrue premise and therefore any conclusion based upon such false reasoning is faulty. There is no point in reading that post further or addressing any subsequent points in it.
i agree. The GB are not effective leaders. They are effective oppressors. But not leaders. Sometimes not even the elders are good leaders.
Mad Sweeney said:
Effective Leadership & consistent Blind Obedience are the main ingredients for "Destructive Cults" is an untrue premise and therefore any conclusion based upon such false reasoning is faulty.
ef·fec·tive
–adjective
1. adequate to accomplish a purpose; producing the intended or expected result
lead·er·ship
–noun
1. the position or function of a leader: He managed to maintain his leadership of the party despite heavy opposition.
2. ability to lead: She displayed leadership potential.
3. an act or instance of leading; guidance; direction: They prospered under his leadership.
4. the leaders of a group: The union leadership agreed to arbitrate.
---
Semantically speaking, "Effective Leaders" can be either good or evil. They can be either constructive or destructive (especially if the goal of the group he leads is one of destruction).
Based on the above definitions the following people were "Effective Leaders" at one time:
Charles Taze Russell
Theodore Roosevelt
Adolf Hitler
Jesus Christ
Osama bin Laden
The common denominator is: Many "voluntarily" followed these charismatic leaders. The Court of Public Opinion ultimately gets to decide if their Leadership was GOOD or EVIL.
---
sir82 said:
I think you may be missing the point, and furthermore I disagree (so there! )
I Googled the full article you were referencing (I believe here). I read it in full and now see the "spirit" of what you were getting at. ( Sorry, I was getting too caught up in semantics )
So my revised comment to you is:
I believe you bring up very good points to ponder. Time will tell what path this current GB will take to avoid outcome #2. I believe they have already started the process, with the flurry of changes we have recently seen. But will they see it to completion? Or will they be afraid of disappointing "The Ole Faithful" with too much change too quick? Stay tuned...
However, I disagree with you on calling JWs a "Destructive cult". New Religious Movement (NRM) is more neutral. "Scholars studying the sociology of religion have almost unanimously adopted this term as a neutral alternative to the word "cult". (So back at you! )
Much respect
---
Sola Scriptura
‘Is it not an exaggeration to say that all of
us are in danger of being deceived with regard
to our religious beliefs?’
-THE WATCHTOWER ? SEPTEMBER 1, 2010 page 11
"...obedience is a natural response to effective leadership, and this is true regardless of whether the people being led are adults or children."
I think the quote is a stupid management tool. A "natural response"??? What in nature is natural about obedience and effective leadership? The winners in any war in history make write the history books, don't they? I don't think effective leadership is what made Hitler rise to power. I don't think either of our two Bush presidents were "effective leaders" but people obeyed, and look at the messes left behind.
No, the quote is just a bunch of words that sound good, nature is dirty, nature is organic, nature is "not knowing whether the best will win". You can assume you know nature but the truth is nature isn't bound by what we think, it has it's own laws and they're not ours to use in controlling nature. Human plans fail and there's no perfect leadership, the inefective leadership is exposed because "chance and unforeseen occurrences" befall us all.
