"Theocratic Sound Car"?
November 2010 Awake! about "new atheism"
by processor 29 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Caminante
"I couldn't find anything regarding this 'Religion as a Peace-Maker' lecture. Maybe it was about false religion as a counterfeit peace-maker?"
Yes, Stephan. It surely was. Back in those days (before 1950) the term "religion", without any qualitative adjectives, was applied to what today is refered to as "false religion". Rutherford defined "religion" as 'worship to a creature', and asserted that it has nothing to do with 'worship to God in spirit and truth'. Many splinter groups of the Witnesses stumbled upon this new interpretation and left the organization.
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leavingwt
too much beauty in this world
Take a closer look. The planet is chock full of death and destruction. It's an arms race between predator and prey, non-stop. We're lucky to ever have been born and to still be alive.
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cyberjesus
Since I am faithful atheist I have to say from my immoral point of view that the world is ugly... you happy?
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SixofNine
Take a closer look. The planet is chock full of death and destruction. It's an arms race between predator and prey, non-stop. We're lucky to ever have been born and to still be alive.
That was a beautiful way to express His mysterious ways. You are so right, we are blessed to be alive!
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Podobear
Come on.... quit the materialism... and look at the beauty for a change! Life came from a Designer and a Creator.. it takes greater faith to be an Atheist! I haven't got the balls!! I'm up for the Designer..... God, if you will
Podo
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leavingwt
and look at the beauty for a change!
I see the 'beauty', but I'm unwilling to also ignore the UGLY. Focusing only on what fits the narrative of a LOVING creator is an exercise in confirmation bias. Ask the tough questions.
24,000+ children die each day.
http://www.globalissues.org/article/715/today-over-24000-children-died-around-the-world
Please don't get me wrong, I see the usefulness of focusing on the beauty. Why focus on the negative, why seek it out? I can understand why this is comforting. Now, please understand how it's difficult for me to ignore, when I'm trying to draw a conclusion for myself.
There are many, many possibilities, including a cruel god, an uninterested god or WT-style god content with allowing this ugliness for a time.
None of that, however, has any impact upon my life, as best as I can tell. No matter how beautiful or ugly things are, they ARE how they ARE. Life goes on.
The ugly does not depress me. Again, I feel lucky to have been born in the first place and I do not fear my inevitable death.
"Seek not death, but instead seek that which makes death a fulfillment."
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ziddina
I made this comment on another recent thread about evolution. It never ceases to amaze me that most people won't look beyond their limited belief systems and observe the underlying principles in human - and natural - systems...
"I find it ironic that humans, who have had to 'stick-build' every tool and technological advancement within the last 10,000 years, are generally incapable of seeing beyond that limitation...
In other words, since humans have had to "build", to adapt quickly to their ever-changing environment, they assume that EVERYTHING ELSE must have been "built", too...
It's a pervasive mentality. One even sees scientists using terms such as "created, creating, built, made..." and so on... That "proto-human" part of our brain which first picked up a stick and found that they could sharpen it with a stone, is deeply embedded in our perceptions of the universe...
However, looking at human technology, one can see that human progress itself EVOLVES.
One might be able to use this on the weekly "Sales Meeting" attendees... If CREATION were the UNDERLYING PRINCIPLE OF PROGRESSION IN THE UNIVERSE, then the human invention of - say, the AUTOMOBILE - would NOT have gone through a series of gradual, forward steps!!!
Ol' Henry Ford's first "Model T" would have sprung, fully formed, with airbags and seat belts and "I"-bars in the doors and variable-speed windshield wipers and hi-lo lights and brake lights and brake sensors and turn signals - front AND back, and [you can keep going from there...] INCLUDED, when automobiles were first BUILT! [yeah, I know, Henry Ford didn't invent the first auto, but he's the most commonly known... We're dealing with JWs here...]
While we're on the subject, the origins of automobiles demonstrate that [evolutionary principle] new forms of life can spring from older life forms, producing offspring that are VERY DIFFERENT from their ancestors... Automobiles evolved from a combination of bicycles - and steam locomotives... Speaking of offspring looking drastically different from their predecessors, have any of these idiots ever looked at the history of dog breeds?? The breeding of animals to obtain desired characteristics is ANOTHER WAY IN WHICH HUMANS USE MECHANISMS OF EVOLUTION...
And since they're EVER SO FOND of the idiotic "clock" analogy, point out to them that, If CREATION were the UNDERLYING SOURCE AND PRINCIPLE OF THE UNIVERSE, that digital watch on their wrist or that digital alarm clock that woke them up in the morning would NOT have gone through a gradual progression of forward steps!!! [You can throw out the name of "Benjamin Banneker", first gent to make a fully functioning clock in America, in the 1750's, if you wish... http://www.black-inventor.com/Benjamin-Banneker.asp"]
But, IF CREATIONISM were the 'underlying principle' of progression, in the universe, then ol' Benjamin would have produced a DIGITAL WRISTWATCH, instead - WITHOUT the intervening, gradual progression of improved "watch" forms!!
Aaaand you can apply that to most items that the human race uses - EVEN HAMMERS!! Remember, the first ever 'hammer' used by humans, was an unreliable bit of rock tied onto a stick with rawhide thongs... Whoops... Actually, it was just a rock...
Also, as I enjoy pointing out, RELIGION ITSELF EVOLVED. Which statement usually pisses off Christians - and in this instance I'm not talking about any "god" gene, either...
Looking at the primitive beginnings of religion and moving forward in time, one can see how belief systems evolved - or, as in the case of the three prominent Middle Eastern 'gods' being worshipped today, DEvolved..."
PodoBear's comment about "seeing the beauty around us" is facile and disingenuous, but fails to take into account that species of life which evolved within a certain life-support environment would inevitably view said environment as "beautiful"...
If there were intelligent life on Venus, for example, they - having evolved in an environment in which liquid iron falls as rain and mountaintops are coated with a 'snow' of crystallized metals, would find such an environment - THEIR "life-support" environment, "beautiful", too... Since they would have evolved there and their continued existence would rely upon said environment; inevitably such an environment would appeal to them. However, such an environment as that, would be deadly to we humans and would therefore be considered far less "beautiful" - safe, desirable, life-supporting - than our own....
I would state that as an evolutionary 'given' - that any life form which relies upon a certain type of environment for its optimum survival will inevitably prefer that environment over other environments; therefore the environment that provides optimum survival and species' support will be considered more "beautiful" than other, less-supportive environments.. An environment that could be deadly to a specified species will be considered 'not beautiful', even ugly, apocalyptic, and may have superstitious 'evil' attached to it, in the minds of any species to which it could prove fatal...
Look at the ancients' superstitious fears of volcanoes, for example. Few to none of the superstitious ancients viewed active volcanic fields as "beautiful", because they were potentially deadly... They were viewed as the homes of devils or gods, but not viewed as "beautiful"...
Zid
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alice.in.wonderland
You didn't challenge any textual points from the new Awake!, you just posted some unrelated pictures.
On atheism: we can have more than the usual amount of trust in the scientific body of knowledge because we know it is self-correcting and millions of people are inspecting its recesses looking for something wrong, so that they can make a name for themselves. Evolution isn't an integral part of this body of knowledge. When it comes to this metaphysical subject; the cautious, skeptical and intellectually careful become a bunch of people dogmatically asserting something happened and is still happening when the facts clearly indicate otherwise. Physical reality in itself does not actually show signs of a God as explained by well-known human tendencies, science discovers a world of magnificent order, a universe that contains distinctive marks of intelligent design. We can disprove every God who is defined as omnipotent but not capable and desirous of preventing evil. The God of the Bible values free will and the prevention of evil. The God of the Bible as defined in Christendom's churches lives on only in the minds of believers until they're completely overcome by doubt. This has resulted in an increase of disbelief, because to think God is incapable of using his incredible powers for only his own improvement is highly disappointing. To those who accept this, it is a shame to see such limited/restricted thinking from a theist.
I don't think people can "intend" God one way or the other. For those who do not believe God exists, we are not in a godless society whether you know it or not.
That is why, since we have this ministry according to the mercy that was shown us, we do not give up; but we have renounced the underhanded things of which to be ashamed, not walking with cunning, neither adulterating the word of God, but by making the truth manifest recommending ourselves to every human conscience in the sight of God. If, now, the good news we declare is in fact veiled, it is veiled among those who are perishing, among whom the god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, that the illumination of the glorious good news about the Christ, who is the image of God, might not shine through. 2 Corinthians 4:1-4
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Podobear
Zid!! You surprise me... facile my viewpoint may be, but you of all people should realise that working in harmony with the beauty of the earth and all creation (yes, I chose that word deliberately) is the only way forward for us. If you really want to reach into the world of simplicity: .." keep conquering the evil with the good.."
As a Medic. I often have to inflict pain to get people out of it. I understand exactly where you are coming from leavingwt.. but the only way to save mankind is to keep focusing on the good.
Zids multiple gods are always in conflict. The Monotheism laid out in the Bible shows linear thought and purpose and is much more comforting.
God, or No God.. it has to be a chosen mind-set. Not one of us was around at the beginning, noone walks this planet with all the answers. However, those with the mind-set of living in harmony with our surroundings and focusing on the good in all things are indeed "a great crowd" which "no man is able to number."
I believe in a Designer and Creator with an adaptation and evolution of the species thereafter. Facile or not... for me ATHEISM takes greater faith.. for it belies the beauty in everything I see.
I am not preaching a return to Puritanical Monotheism here. Each to his or her own path, in harmony with the beauty of this Universe.
Podo