JW's came to the door

by pr0ner 50 Replies latest jw friends

Ding

Djeggnog,
You really amaze me when you tell me that JWs KNOW they have the truth.
Do you not realize that if you stood up in the Kingdom Hall today and proclaimed as truth things the Watchtower USED to require Jehovah's Witnesses to embrace as truth only a few years ago, you'd be disfellowshipped?
In fact, I challenge you to find any other religious organization that has changed what it teaches as truth more than the Watchtower has in the short 150 years or so of its existence.
Want some examples? Please don't gloss over these. Actually, GO LOOK UP what the Watchtower really said. Check me out to see if I'm making this up.
Which truths do you KNOW that the Watchtower has taught as truth?
-- that Jesus came invisibly in 1874 (Jehovah's Witnesses in the Dvine Purpose, 1959, pp. 148-149) or that he came invisibly in 1914?
-- that the scriptural PROOF is that Jesus returned invisibly in 1874 (Prophecy, 1926, p. 65)
-- that Jesus is Michael or that Michael is the Pope in Rome (The Finished Mystery, explanation of Revelation 12:7)?
-- that there are two heavenly classes and two earthly classes (The Finished Mystery) or that it's one heavenly and one earthly class?
-- that the "great crowd" is in heaven (The Finished Mystery) or that it's clearly on earth?
-- that the publishing of The Finished Mystery was foretold in Revelation 14:20 where the distance mentioned in that verse represents the distance from where it was authored in Scranton, PA to Watchtower headquarters in Brooklyn, provided you traveled by way of the Lackawanna Railroad and the Hoboken Ferry (The Finished Mystery explanation of Revelation 14:20)?
-- that Jehovah's end times chronology is clearly shown by the dimensions of the Great Pyramid in Egypt (The Finished Mystery)?
-- that the Great Pyramid of Giza is "the Bible in stone" (Watchtower reprints, p. 4790)
-- that the Great Pyramid of Giza was built under the direction of Satan the devil (Watchtower, November 15, 1928, p. 344)?
-- that "the battle of the great day of God Almighty" began in October, 1874 and would end in October, 1914 (Watchtower reprints, p. 4685)?
-- that Armageddon would END in 1914 with the complete overthrow of earthly governments (Studies in the Scriptures, Vol. II, p. 101)?
-- that 1914 is the date for the END, not the begnning of the time or trouble (Watchtower, July 15, 1894)?
-- that we can confidently expect the resurrection of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in 1925 (Millions Now Living Will Never Die, 1920)?
-- that the date of 1925 is more clearly marked in the scriptures than is 1914 (Watchtower, January 1, 1925, p. 3)?
-- that Jesus rose from the dead or that everything that died disintegrated into the elements from which all human bodies are made (Watchtower, September 1, 1953, p. 517)?"
-- that World War I was Amageddon? That Armageddon was coming in 1925? 1941? 1975? Any day now?
-- that the 1914 generation had only a few months left before it expired and Armageddon had to come?
-- That the 1914 generation could last as long as until the year 2000 before Armageddon would come?
-- That there's some spiritual overlap so all these deadlines things the Society announced before can be forgotten?
-- what the "faithful and discreet slave" class taught taught 5 years ago? What they teach today? What they will be teaching 5 years from now?
Of course, I know the answers to these questions.
The truth is what the Watchtower says right now and it will remain the truth until they say something different. Then THAT will be the truth.
Awake!, Oc!ober 8, 1968, page 23:
"True, there have been those in times past who predicted an 'end to the world' even announcing a specific date... Yet, nothing happened. The 'end' did not come. They were guilty of false prophesying. Why? What was missing?... Missing from such people were God's truths and the evidence that he was guiding and using them."
Is This Life All There Is? 1974, p. 46:
"It is obvious that the true God who is himself 'the God of truth' and who hates lies, will not look with favor on persons who cling to organizations that teach falsehood. And, really, would you want to be associated with a religion that had not been honest with you?"
pr0ner

@djeggnog
LOLOLOLOLOLZZZZZZZZ TL;DR but what I did read. I love when they come to my door because I like to troll IRL and make them feel like idiots. Successful trolls are successful you can understand that right?
ziddina

PR0NER!!! WOW!!!
Congratulations on a very effective comeback!!! I hope I can remember your comments and technique if they ever come to MY door again!!!
[And for DJ Eggnogg... Dude, your egg is CRACKED!! Even your on-board NAME is hypocritical!!! Grow some gray cells!!]
Zid
pr0ner

Also for the record I am a guy, but if it helps eggnog to imagine me with tits I'm fine with that.
djeggnog

@sabastious:
Holy sh*t eggnog, that is a WALL of text.
And...?
@djeggnog wrote:
Who knows, @wasblind? Sister Odd and Sister Nice could well make that return visit. Why do you need a return visit? Have you been considering making a return to God's organization or what?
@wasblind wrote:
Maybe, if they came back with the actual "TRUTH " they are not coming back, the real truth don't run !!!!!!! make it so bad they are running from their own works (literature)
Why should Jehovah's Witnesses run from anyone? They have the truth and are now themselves entrants in the race for life.
@3Mozzies:
When I left the JWs, I felt liberated, I didn't have to listen to long boring fairy tales of them having the truth and the long round about way they would use 67 scriptures to prove one point. Now I'm here on this forum and I see some JW type so much they might as well write a novel from one post. They can call it: "Millions of words now that never end (die)"
Well, it's like this: I was not posting a reply to just one post, as you are here doing, but a reply to 15+ posts, which ends up being a small novel. If you don't want to read a lot of words contained in a single post, then you should just skip my posts. I mean, why unnecessarily cause yourself such aggravation and angst?
@steve2:
Modern-day JWs are such limp-wristed pushovers; they fumble through the Bible like bumbling fools.
You've never met me. I'm neither a "limp-wristed pushover," nor do I "fumble through the Bible like a bumbling fool." I hope this doesn't adversely impact your worldview though.
Where are the fearsome, old-timer JWs who would fiercely lock horns with a flailing householder and slowly wear her down? Guess they're all dead now; waiting for the system to end is an [aging] business.
I'm an "old-timer," and I'll lock horns with anyone, except the deliberately belligerent. I've waiting patiently for the system to end and am especially looking forward to seeing the talks between the Israelis and the Palestinians re a two-state solution go forward, since "whenever it is that they are saying: 'Peace and security!'.... (1 Thessalonians 5:3)
Say what you like about those old-timers: They thoroughly knew their stuff and held to it with brutal force.
Actually, unlike you, I know my "stuff."
None of this feeble, "We didn't come here to argue with you..." Imagine if Judge Rutherford ever heard that kind of puffery from any of the rank and file!
That's a myth. There is no "rank and file" in Jehovah's organization. All of us are brothers and sisters.
@Aussie Oz:
Oh crap, i just cant put into words what your post did to me.
You might want to drink something sweet if someone I said in my post turned out to be somewhat bitter in your mouth, and then come back and tell me exactly what my post did to you. Say what you feel. (I can take it.)
@djeggnog wrote:
Did she [do good]?
@AnnOMaly wrote:
Yes s/he did. And the older lady apparently knew that 'joining a religion,' even if it is supposed to be the 'right' one, will not guarantee salvation - hence her hesitation to answer directly.
That's not true and is utter nonsense where the religion practiced by Jehovah's Witnesses is concerned.
@AnnOMaly wrote:
You never know what's going on in this younger lady's head!
@djeggnog wrote:
Meaning what? That she might have become stumbled over the way in which the older woman (Sister Odd) conducted herself at @pr0ner's home? I don't believe so, but I'm wondering what it is you mean.
@AnnOMaly wrote:
Meaning, you never know what's going on in the younger lady's head for her to smile like that.
Ok.
@djeggnog wrote:
Why were you thrilled when a householder "stumped" this "older JW sister 'sister'"? Were you and this sister at odds with one another for some reason so that you were looking for circumstances to arise that would make her more humble or what? Although you were "young and green," as you describe yourself as being, why didn't you help the sister instead of seeming to take sides against her with the householder "to smooth things over"?
@AnnOMaly wrote:
If you remember, I said she was a very overbearing know-it-all. Therefore, she got people's backs up - including householders' sometimes. It was thrilling to see her taken down a peg or two by someone who knew his stuff. And I've always been one to side with 'the facts' - no matter where they come from. The householder was correct; and the JW, in this instance, was arrogant in her ignorance which was giving a 'bad witness.'
Yes, I recall what you said, but how in your mind did any of this (about Beth Serim) constitute a "bad witness"?
@djeggnog wrote:
This situation you describe here must have been rather uncomfortable for this older sister to have found herself, so what exactly did you say to this interested person about Beth Sarim that was all a ... matter of the "historical WT record" ... From what as to this Beth Sarim topic did this sister to whom you are referring here dissent from and so need to save face??
@AnnOMaly wrote:
No, the householder brought up the subject and my older JW partner was even vehemently denying that there ever was a Beth Sarim, let alone any of the story surrounding it.
Ok.
@djeggnog wrote:
What was it that happened to you "years later"?
@AnnOMaly wrote:
Quite simply, I woke up.
I think I set myself up for that response. <g> Ok, Ann!
@Ding:
You really amaze me when you tell me that JWs KNOW they have the truth.
And...?
Do you not realize that if you stood up in the Kingdom Hall today and proclaimed as truth things the Watchtower USED to require Jehovah's Witnesses to embrace as truth only a few years ago, you'd be disfellowshipped?
That's a ridiculous notion you just suggested. The beliefs of Jehovah's Witnesses are progressive, and not static, which means that there are things that we may have believed just five years ago, even a year ago, that was rejected and is not among what things we believe and teach others, since Jehovah's Witnesses do not try to hold on things they know to be falsehood, but they are always seeking to "make sure of all things [that they might] hold fast to what is fine," something that other Christian denominations simply do not and are unwilling to do since these other Christian denomination seem to have an interest any longer in studying the Bible, which is their choice. (1 Thessalonians 5:21)
In fact, I challenge you to find any other religious organization that has changed what it teaches as truth more than the Watchtower has in the short 150 years or so of its existence.
I don't care what other Christian denominations do or are doing. I'm only interested in what Jehovah's Witnesses are doing in furtherance of proclaiming the established heavenly kingdom of God by Christ Jesus. You are free to make a statistical analysis of such tripe if that is want you choose to do.
Want some examples? Please don't gloss over these.
Nope. I read them all (didn't gloss over any of what you listed in your post), but I don't care about things that were being taught before I became one of Jehovah's Witnesses, and I also do not care about what things were being taught since I became one of Jehovah's Witnesses that, through adjustments that were made over the years, Jehovah's Witnesses no longer believe nor teach.
@pr0ner:
LOLOLOLOLOLZZZZZZZZ TL;DR but what I did read. I love when they come to my door because I like to troll IRL and make them feel like idiots. Successful trolls are successful you can understand that right?
A "successful troll"? Sounds like an oxymoron to me. I don't believe a troll can be successful, can he/she?
@ziddina:
And for DJ Eggnogg... Dude, your egg is CRACKED!!
Ok.
Even your on-board NAME is hypocritical!!! Grow some gray cells!!
My name here is my "DJ" name on Live365.com (Eggnog Radio). Tell me this: What could possibly be "hypocritical" about my name?
@pr0ner:
Also for the record I am a guy, but if it helps eggnog to imagine me with tits I'm fine with that.
I'm fine thinking of you as a guy, ipso facto guys just don't have mammaries. <g> I don't know why I thought you were female, but ok.
@djeggnog
Aussie Oz

Oh crap, i just cant put into words what your post did to me.
You might want to drink something sweet if someone I said in my post turned out to be somewhat bitter in your mouth, and then come back and tell me exactly what my post did to you. Say what you feel. (I can take it.)
Ok. you made me write a big reply and then delete it because i felt it was a waste of time, and would be totally lost on you, as is proved by the responses from you to other posts.
You think your words were bitter to me?
You self righteous little shit
I wont be reading your dribble anymore... you are perhaps the most ignorant person i have come accross so far on here.
THATS what your post did to me.
now go and post how Oz is a horrid nasty person who derides people and is sensitive or something.
bugger off.
moshe

So in less than five minutes the householder learns from the Bible that Jehovah is the true God, that Jesus is God's only-begotten son, that God sent Jesus to give his life as a ransom and that the very fact that Isaiah recorded this prophecy concerning Jesus some 730 years before Jesus' birth is proof that God exists.
egggnogg, you and the rest of the JW blind ilk have confused opinion for fact here. The householder was told of your opinion, but it is not a proven fact. Jesus has been a no-show for almost 2000 years and every year that goes by, proves that the Jews were right all along- Jesus was not a Messiah.
wasblind

@Djeggnogg / Christmas Cheer
Why should Jehovah's Witnesses run from anyone?
Because they might actually find the "TRUTH"
blondie

I come from a jw family that goes back to the 1920's. Yet, they did not talk much about Beth-Sarim. I had access to the WT history from the 1959 Divine Purpose Book, the 1975 YB, and eventually a few comments in the 1993 Proclaimers book. Most jws are ignorant of their history, even if they were adults in 1993 when the Proclamiers book came out and when it was read and discussed over 3 years from 1994 to 1996.
The WTS finally had the information discussed in the Number 1 talks of the Theocratic School, starting in 1994. For many jws it was the first time they heard about Beth Sarim, or 1874, or 1878, 1881, or other events from the past.
In the first mention, the WTS seems to say that Beth Sarim was just a building that happened to be available to Rutherford in the end of his days, not a place that he had resided in over many years.
*** jv chap. 7 p. 89 Advertise the King and the Kingdom! (1919-1941) ***Closing Days of J. F. Rutherford
Brother Rutherford had developed cancer of the colon and was in poor health at the St. Louis convention. Still, he managed to give five strong discourses. Following the convention, however, his condition worsened, and he was compelled to have a colostomy. Arthur Worsley recalls the day Brother Rutherford said good-bye to the Bethel family. "He confided in us that he was going to undergo a serious operation and that whether he lived through it or not, he was confident that we would keep on proclaiming Jehovah’s name. He . . . concluded by saying, ‘So, if God wills, I will see you again. If not, keep up the fight.’ There was not a dry eye in the family."
Brother Rutherford, 72 years of age, survived the surgery. Shortly thereafter he was taken to a residence in California he had named Beth-Sarim. It was evident to his loved ones, and to medical experts, that he would not recover. In fact, he required further surgery.
---------------on another page (page 76) in a footnote the WTS says this. Now many jws have access to the 3/19/30 Golden Age. or the Salvantion from 1939. Do you think it was fringe jws who came up with the ancient worthies being resurrected in 1925 as perfect men to rule on the earth from Jerusalem? "It was believed"??!!!
*** jv chap. 7 p. 76 Advertise the King and the Kingdom! (1919-1941) ***
"House of the Princes
"Brother Rutherford had a severe case of pneumonia after his release from unjust imprisonment in 1919. Thereafter, he had only one good lung. In the 1920’s, under a doctor’s treatment, he went to San Diego, California, and the doctor urged him to spend as much time as possible there. From 1929 on, Brother Rutherford spent the winters working at a San Diego residence he had named Beth-Sarim. Beth-Sarim was built with funds that were a direct contribution for that purpose. The deed, which was published in full in "The Golden Age" of March 19, 1930, conveyed this property to J. F. Rutherford and thereafter to the Watch Tower Society.
Concerning Beth-Sarim, the book "Salvation," published in 1939, explains: "The Hebrew words ‘Beth Sarim’ mean ‘House of the Princes’; and the purpose of acquiring that property and building the house was that there might be some tangible proof that there are those on earth today who fully believe God and Christ Jesus and in His kingdom, and who believe that the faithful men of old will soon be resurrected by the Lord, be back on earth, and take charge of the visible affairs of earth."
A few years after Brother Rutherford’s death, the board of directors of the Watch Tower Society decided to sell Beth-Sarim. Why? "The Watchtower" of December 15, 1947, explained: "It had fully served its purpose and was now only serving as a monument quite expensive to keep; our faith in the return of the men of old time whom the King Christ Jesus will make princes in ALL the earth (not merely in California) is based, not upon that house Beth-Sarim, but upon God’s Word of promise."
[Footnote]
At the time, it was believed that faithful men of old times, such as Abraham, Joseph, and David, would be resurrected before the end of this system of things and would serve as "princes in all the earth," in fulfillment of Psalm 45:16. This view was adjusted in 1950, when further study of the Scriptures indicated that those earthly forefathers of Jesus Christ would be resurrected after Armageddon.—See "The Watchtower," November 1, 1950, pages 414-17.
--------------------------------
Without access to the 1930 Golden Age
http://www.bibletopics.com/biblestudy/89d.htm
http://www.quotes-watchtower.co.uk/beth_sarim.html
http://www.faithandreasonforum.com/index.asp?PageID=30&ArticleID=440
pirata

I'm an "old-timer," and I'll lock horns with anyone, except the deliberately belligerent. I've waiting patiently for the system to end and am especially looking forward to seeing the talks between the Israelis and the Palestinians re a two-state solution go forward, since "whenever it is that they are saying: 'Peace and security!'.... (1 Thessalonians 5:3)
The latest Society's Public Talk Outline "Peace - Can it Last" stated that we should not speculate on the meaning of "Peace and Security".

JW's came to the door

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