Yoo-Hoo, Dear NVL...

by AGuest 10 Replies latest watchtower bible

AGuest

The greatest of love and peace to you, dear one! Since you gave me the option of continuing our discussion on the board, via PM, or via email I've chosen the board because there may have been some following our discussion and I think it would be unkind to take it behind the scenes at this point. So, if you're amenable, let's start:
I REALLY do want to understand what you mean about christ and the photons.
I've asked my Lord to give me words to explain this so that perhaps YOU will understand it. What I received is that when the Son... light... was brought forth, the result was a "collision" of light/force/energy SO... huge (and even that word doesn't do it justice)... that the electromagnetic field that resulted brought into existence the physical universe. The physical universe came through that light.
The catapault for that even was the Most Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies... speaking... which speech brought forth His "breath"... or spirit... which resulted in the "birth" of the Light... who, because God SPOKE him into existence, is called His Word. All of these, God's Holy Spirit, Light, and Word... are Christ.
The photon collision in the article resulted in an infinitesimally tiny event... but it was a real event. It was exactly the same kind of event that resulted from the birth of the TRUE light, Christ... but there is absolutely no way to measure... or recreate that one, dear NVL. Not by man.
I hope that clarifies, dear NVL... and, again, peace to you!
A slave of Christ,
SA
notverylikely

I've asked my Lord to give me words to explain this so that perhaps YOU will understand it.
Shelby, my dear, I promise to try and when I don't, I will sincerely ask questions.
that the electromagnetic field that resulted brought into existence the physical universe.
before we continue, let me pose a statement and ask a question. Electromagetic forces are part of OUR universe. Are you suggesting that whatever existed before were subject to the same laws and properties that govern electromagnetic forces? I only ask because you mentioned those forces gave rise to our universe.
The photon collision in the article resulted in an infinitesimally tiny event... but it was a real event. It was exactly the same kind of event that resulted from the birth of the TRUE light, Christ
The photon collision in the article gave rise to matter, not photons (light). I do not understand your statement in relation to the article, except to think that the creation of the "light" (the colision of the photons) simultaneously gave rise to matter?
garyneal
garyneal

Shelby,
Is it possible that space / time / thought are not seperate entities at all but somehow intertwined? I'm amazed to see that my Lord and Savior revealed such a scientific explanation of the origins of our universe to you. If indeed that is what you are trying to convey.
I guess I just always took Him for revealing things in very simplistic and yet very profound ways. Here's a truth to ponder. Without force, the velocity of matter is always constant. Do you understand that?
This is Newton's first law of motion as more commonly understood as a body at rest tends to remain at rest unless acted upon by an outside force or a body in motion tends to remain in motion unless acted upon by an outside force. At rest the velocity is zero, in motion the velocity is a constant value. If we include zero as another constant value then my original more simplistic explanation holds true.
OnTheWayOut

Youse guys just don't get it. It's like Moses writing of the creation of the universe and then the earth and life upon it.
Moses didn't understand fully in his puny human condition, so he wrote according to the vision he saw.

Shelby is a puny human that cannot fully understand the Spirit's explanation and does her best to put it in "puny human" terms.
But Shelby's is different from Moses' explanation in that she thinks she really does understand it.
Existing light creating matter? Hmmm????? I am sure the Spirit had to reveal "energy" to Shelby and how can a puny human comprehend energy in a vision (or a whisper) unless you light it up?
Which came first- the giant teapot in space or the space itself? Silly question. Of course the teapot created the space. (Don't tell me that doesn't make sense, ask the Spirit to explain it.
AGuest

Shelby, my dear, I promise to try and when I don't, I will sincerely ask questions.
Thank you, dear NVL, I appreciate that, truly... and peace to you!
that the electromagnetic field that resulted brought into existence the physical universe. before we continue, let me pose a statement and ask a question. Electromagetic forces are part of OUR universe.
Yes!
Are you suggesting that whatever existed before were subject to the same laws and properties that govern electromagnetic forces?
I am not. Absolutely not.
I only ask because you mentioned those forces gave rise to our universe.
There's a problem here, dear NVL... in that I tried to be brief, which I don't do very well. The reason it took me so long to start the new thread is that I actually wrote out what I saw. Literally. But... I wasn't able to share it here, yet. So, I saved it in a document and then responded as briefly as I can. Given what I went through when I shared what spirit beings look like... the post regarding my experience with Beli-jah-El... my recent discussions with you and others... and give what dear Watersprout is going through now... I just thought better of it. I don't know, just yet, who that "pearl" should be shared with. I am waiting to hear and if I hear to share it, I certainly will.
But to answer your question, no. When "birth" of that light... the event itself... created the physical universe and all that governs it, ALL laws and properties, including those that govern electromagneticism. Gravity, etc.
The photon collision in the article resulted in an infinitesimally tiny event... but it was a real event. It was exactly the same kind of event that resulted from the birth of the TRUE light, Christ. The photon collision in the article gave rise to matter, not photons (light).
Yes. And that is what I said: the photon collision = the "birth" of the True Light, Christ.
I do not understand your statement in relation to the article, except to think that the creation of the "light" (the colision of the photons) simultaneously gave rise to matter?
No, sorry. First, the light was not created. The light's "birth"... coming forth... was such a event ("collision") that simultaneously gave rise to matter. At the most elementary level. But something occurred, and I think I can explain it below*.
Shelby,
Greetings, dear GaryNeal... and the greatest of love and peace to you!
Is it possible that space / time / thought are not seperate entities at all but somehow intertwined?
I would LOVE to say yes, dear one, but the answer is no. The space (not as we know it, but more of a void... a NON-space)... was there... and the thought occurred first, so that there was speech... which could be heard IN the void... but did not come from within the void... which resulted in the light coming forth... and the start of "time"). But the space... the... ummmmm, void is the only word I can think of... was already there... before the light came into it; however, the light came FROM somewhere. Like being in a pitch dark room, and someone opens the door... and there is a bright light shining outside the door... on the "other" side... that now shines IN the room. But it is only a kind of beam of light... albeit fairly wide... but not as if someone turned on the light in the room and illuminated the entire space. (It would help if I could share what I saw, but I can't just now, please forgive me!). The light bursting forth into the room did so in an "event" so... there is no human word to describe it, but "powerful" gives you a place to start... that other "things" resulted.
*I believe that it was the interaction of the light WITH the void... that caused the event. Like, the light "broke up" the void... or made a path through it... so that something like dust or "fragments" appeared. But the void was so... THICK?... that the light had to have great power... GREAT power... to push through it (the void). And the "dust"... came INTO the void... THROUGH the light
I'm amazed to see that my Lord and Savior revealed such a scientific explanation of the origins of our universe to you. If indeed that is what you are trying to convey.
You're amazed. I've been screaming (inside and out)... for days. Since it occurred. With joy, yes, but I can't even comprehend... why. Although, when I asked him, he said it was my faith... that the only reason I DO see and hear... is because I believe it when I see and hear it. Aren't I afraid people will think I'm crazy? Of COURSE, I am. But... I cannot deny it. Do I wish I could? Dear GaryNeal, I openly confess to you that there are days when I feel like the guy in the Matrix who wanted to take the blue pill and just go back to eating good steak. It's short-lived, of course, moments. But, it does occur. Very few days go by when I don't say, "What if dear Terry/OTWO/Six, et al. are right?" And every single time, my Lord comes and say, "You are certainly welcome to doubt, child. We don't want ANYONE to FORCE themselves to believe ANYTHING. You can see/hear more if YOU want to. And if you don't, you won't, because don't have to."
Now, I ask you, how would YOU reply... given what I have seen and heard thus far? Hmmmm... let it all go because "they" say it's not true, that I'm "mental"? Or would you want to see and hear more. I'm sorry, but I can't see the choice, really.
I guess I just always took Him for revealing things in very simplistic and yet very profound ways.
You don't believe this to be simplistic, yet very profound, dear one???? Thus far, other than learning things like that he speaks...he is the Truth... that you can get to God by going through him... what he (and all spirit beings) look like... what goes on in the World of the Dead... who the WTBTS is... and a great many other things like this, I can't THINK of anything else more simplistic... yet profound.
Here's a truth to ponder. Without force, the velocity of matter is always constant. Do you understand that?
First of all, let me thank you, sincerely, for being "gentle" with me, here. I know I am way out of my league, so thank you. Now, while I understand what you're saying, I would have to say, if I were being honest, that I am not sure I knew that; however, I am not sure that I didn't, since it makes absolute sense. Let me see: I think what you're saying is that, without force, the speed at which matter... travels?... stays the same... and that force is what changes it? Now, I could be so totally off-base here, so please... be gentle with me. I'm trying...
This is Newton's first law of motion as more commonly understood as a body at rest tends to remain at rest unless acted upon by an outside force...
Okay, it stays still until "something" moves it/causes it to move?
or a body in motion tends to remain in motion unless acted upon by an outside force.
It will propel until some force causes it to stop? For instance, gravity? Which is a force, I think?
At rest the velocity is zero,
Pretty self-explanatory...
in motion the velocity is a constant value.
Unless the force increases/decreases/another force occurs/interferes? Or am I deviating, and poorly so...
If we include zero as another constant value then my original more simplistic explanation holds true.
You mean, "that space / time / thought are not separate entities at all but somehow intertwined?" Yes, I can see how that would be... in THIS world. But the event was not OF this world. This (physical) world did not exist UNTIL the event... which such "laws" into existence. It brought time into existence (so time was separate, as it did not exist). And the thought occurred prior to the event, so it, too, was separate. And there was no time OR thought in the space (void), at first. The thought is what brought forth the sound... the "speech"... that gave "birth" to the light... which caused the event. Does that make sense (the sequence, if not the elements)?
I'm sorry, guys, truly, but this is the best way I can explain it, at least here and for now. Again, thank you for your kind patience; I TRULY appreciated it and bid you both the greatest of love and peace!
YOUR servant and an awe-filled slave of Christ,
SA
AGuest

Youse guys just don't get it. It's like Moses writing of the creation of the universe and then the earth and life upon it.
Unfortunately, you err, dear OTWO (peace to you!) in that it wasn't Moses who wrote of the creation, although such was attributed to him. It was Joseph who wrote of it, when he was in prison. Moses only carried the writings, along with Joseph's bones... when he left Egypt with Israel.
Moses didn't understand fully in his puny human condition, so he wrote according to the vision he saw.
Please see above...
Shelby is a puny human that cannot fully understand the Spirit's explanation and does her best to put it in "puny human" terms.
Well, you certainly have THAT part right - !! Actually, I'm even punier!
But Shelby's is different from Moses' explanation in that she thinks she really does understand it.
Now, see, you err, again. Joseph knew what he was writing about - it was the scribes who copied what he wrote that didn't. And so it all sounds like a lot of Star Wars meets Green Acres. Understandably.
Existing light creating matter? Hmmm?????
Okay, now I know I'm not the brightest crayon on the box, dear OTWO... but I believe even these guys said I didn't make THAT up...
I am sure the Spirit had to reveal "energy" to Shelby and how can a puny human comprehend energy in a vision (or a whisper) unless you light it up?
Ummm, first... what "Spirit"? The One you don't believe in? And it very much was "lit up" in my vision. Gloriously so!
Which came first- the giant teapot in space or the space itself? Silly question. Of course the teapot created the space. (Don't tell me that doesn't make sense, ask the Spirit to explain it.
Funny, both the "teapot" and space (the void) were there, in MY vision. I didn't see the teapot; I heard Him. But I saw the space, the void. It was, well, void. Black, dark, no air, no sound, no movement, no... anything. Absolutely nothing. As if all... well, everything... was just... gone. I totally understand the term "vacumm"... more than I ever did. I was in it.
Peace to you, dear OTWO, truly.
A slave of Christ,
SA
notverylikely

But to answer your question, no. When "birth" of that light... the event itself... created the physical universe and all that governs it, ALL laws and properties, including those that govern electromagneticism. Gravity, etc.
So the collision of photons = the creation of christ = the creation of the universe?
*I believe that it was the interaction of the light WITH the void... that caused the event.
What do you mean by "void"
Like, the light "broke up" the void... or made a path through it... so that something like dust or "fragments" appeared.
So....dust ....fragments....that's matter. How did it exist before the event?
garyneal

You mean, "that space / time / thought are not separate entities at all but somehow intertwined?" Yes, I can see how that would be... in THIS world.
Shelby, you misunderstood my post. I did not mean to imply that Newton's law of motion had anything to do with the possibility that space, time, and thought are intertwined. I should've made that clearer.
The phrase, "Without force, the velocity of matter is always constant," was simply a more simple explanation of Newton's law of motion, nothing more.
I think as far as the rest of your response goes, I will simply leave you with your explanation as to the nature and origin of our universe. Cosmology is a rather abstract science, in my humble opinion, and theories are abound as to the nature of the cosmos and their is certainly debate on which theory is better or more correct. It is almost like a religion to some since many of the theories are, like religion, unprovable.
Now I am going out on a limb as I do not know the nature of the universe.
But here's a thought, what if God said something like, "The universe is like a bubble that expands with My essence and nothing created in it can exit and My presence is everywhere within it. But someday, I may remove my presence and the bubble will collapse and the heavens and the earth will pass away."
But I'd heard the Big Bang was the origin, the matter, energy, and light expanded from the bang. The outer rim is the event horizon where nothing indigenous to the universe can pass through. But just as the universe is expanding, it can reverse and begin to collapse in on itself, returning to the point where it was just before the big bang.
If you are more interested in this stuff perhaps you might enjoy Stephen Hawkings book, A Brief History in Time. I think this was the book I listen to one time and I can say that it's not the easiest to comprehend but it is interesting.
notverylikely

Gary, couple points of clarity....
But I'd heard the Big Bang was the origin, the matter, energy, and light expanded from the bang.
No one knows if it was the origin. It was the starting point for the current expansion.
The outer rim is the event horizon where nothing indigenous to the universe can pass through.
That's one idea. It could be that space/time is a property OF the universe or that this matter is expanding in an existing space/time. We really have no idea how large the outer edge is in either case, just how far away we can see.

Yoo-Hoo, Dear NVL...

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