"BRAZEN CONDUCT" The current way of enforcing disciplinary action. (page 2)

sparrowdown

Yes, I have heard similar, stuck.

Not agreeing to meet, declining offers of shepherding visit etc.

"Brazen" can be a handy word it seems

Correct me if I'm wrong (with references or personal stories that don't involve apostasy or some other action that requires judicial review), but isn't 'brazen conduct' ONLY used as an ACCESSORY charge to a preexisting serious sin like hard porn, fornication or speaking against the elders? I don't think they would use it as a catch-all for 'minor' stuff.

ToesUp

Like someone said earlier...if you have an Elder or Elders who have it in for you, they will get rid of you pronto.

cappytan

For things like Uncleanness and Brazen Conduct, you can be counseled without a Judicial Committee. But if you don't take the counsel well when it's given, it can escalate to a JC.

My wife and I confessed (I know, idiots) to some Uncleanness (not fornication) before marriage. Two elders came by, talked to us, reasoned with us from the scriptures that we shouldn't beat ourselves up over it, that it's normal for people to have weak moments, and that was it.

freemindfade

stuckinarut2

I was arguing with the wife last night about this very thing, that their "loving" concern always turns out to be an investigation into me or someone else. I was telling her this is the direction it is heading with me and she refuses to believe that is the case.

breakfast of champions

I have been told that some inactive witnesses in "our congregation" territory are acting "brazenly" because they have refused the help of the elders who have offered to do shepherding calls on them! - STUCKINARUT

I don't doubt it, but really you are under absolutely no obligation to go to meetings, out in field service, or meet/talk with elders (or anyone, for that matter) Everything you have ever done as a witness is entirely VOLUNTARY, meaning you have done it of your own volition -- no one can force you to do anything.

If they start Dfing persons for "brazenly" choosing not to have a shepherding visit, then so be it.

AFRIKANMAN

Dating an unbeliever and refusing to break off the relationship = Brazen conduct = Marking Talk and could even lead to DF'ing as this is wilful disobedience.

Once sat in a JC [as co-Pharisee] where this was applied - Outcome was a Marking Talk as the JW was female - It was intimated that were the JW a brother/servant it could lead to DF'ing. [You can write rules into the Talmud as you go along in the Borg - WikiRulz - self-editing rule book.

With this "ruling" it would be possible to "out" any of us faders as this is wilful [brazen] disobedience of Gods appointed channel - the Slaaaavvvvvve.

gone for good

Sparrow and Stuck -

You've nailed it - Defiance. My non JW mom and dad occassionally used the term in the 60s to identify our teenaged, rebellious disrespect for proper authority - parents, community, school, church, .laws of the land. They had both fought in the war, and held a well defined respect for the value of service and sacrifice and authority.

Democratic legal structure is the most respected and powerful authority most of us know, and rightly so as it is a result of our own participation in formation of laws. Thing is, it is not brazen to challenge laws or try to have them changed or even abandoned. Challenges are welcomed, and if found to have support and merit, changes ensue. Theocratic, dictatorial and outdated laws are replaced by those giving more respect autonomy and freedom to individuals.

Exactly what chafes theocratic despots and mini tyrant elders.

WTWizard

How is this for brazen conduct?

**Having Christmas lights and decorations up, all summer.

**Listening to whatever music I feel like, including rap and heavy metal. And including Led Zeppelin, which they have explicitly banned.

**Having a Ouija board.

**Being right here on this forum.

**Buying silver with money that they wanted me to donate to the Worldwide Damnation Fund. I keep the silver.

**Preparing for potential events with material things. For instance, the Fenix LD22 flashlights and rechargeable batteries I got for the threat of the "grid down" blackout in November 2013--which I still have for the next threatened or accomplished blackout.

**Bashing their Israel mission.

**Learning to use astrology to predict events. Such as realizing that the last time Saturn was in Sagittarius, I ended up a jokehovian witless. Such as seeing Neptune about to go into 9 degrees of Pisces, a bad degree, portending the end of the dollar. As this is very complicated, I am still learning about astrology.

**Visiting openly Satanic websites.

About the only thing I still uphold is the ban on smoking. To me, it is not worth starting smoking. I didn't smoke before I became a jokehovian, I didn't smoke while I was a jokehovian, and I am not starting now. It is horrible for your health, it is a very difficult addiction to break, it is a complete waste of money I need to get even more silver with before it becomes toilet paper, it is very messy, and there is no benefit from doing it. But, everything else--the only thing I now view as a sin is willful stupidity.

Oubliette

Stuck: they have refused the help of the elders who have offered to do shepherding calls on them

This is why I spin it around and say I have a personal family issue with which I need their help. (It involves attempts at reconciliation with family members alienated by my ex-wife. They are all active JWs).

"Please help me reconcile with my estranged children!" I plead.

But Elders naturally don't want to get involved in this mess.

I say, "If you won't help me with this, then we really have nothing else to talk about. This is the cause of all of my frustration and depression. This is the reason I can't go to meetings. It's too depressing."

"BRAZEN CONDUCT" The current way of enforcing disciplinary action.