Had to edit this. Sorry.
Gossip gossip gossip.
I'm not saying we aren't their definition of apostate, but they have NO evidence against us, so they make it up.
"No one can take advantage of you, without your permission." Ann Landers
Update on my friend....Billygoat was right
by Mulan 16 Replies latest jw friends
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David Gladden
Stick to your rights! It looks like you are handling this correctly so far.
Always (politely in a JW manner ) insist that evidence be provided. Do not talk about anything until evidence is provided, and MOST OF ALL, don't answer any questions that have not been asked.
I noticed that elders will first ask: "Is there anything you want to tell us before we start?” fishing for any information/confession they might not yet have.
Play dumb, like the “innocent sheep” you are.
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Mulan
Does anyone know where in the WT it says that you have to cut all BUSINESS ties with disfellowhipped people?
I don't have access to research materials. I dumped them all.
It came up in this situation, since my friend works for me occasionally. They said she has to quit, and her husband reminded them that we aren't disfellowshipped, and they said it's as good as that anyway. So, he said it's a selective thing, since JW's in other congregations don't treat us that way. Not really true, but it was nice he said that. They had no answer for him.
"No one can take advantage of you, without your permission." Ann Landers
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SEAKEN2001
So when are they going to make an announcement that you are "as good as" DF'd? You are "marked" but the "elders" (cough) have no right to discipline your friend for visiting or working for a marked person. They just don't have the balls to make it official. Maybe they are still wondering if they really will get sued? And they think my Dad's book is some big wedge of resistance? What a laugh! I'm tempted to publish it since the rumors already have it so. Ignorant SOBs. Do they know you recommend Ray's book to people? That should get thier knickers in a bunch.
I'm glad to hear that your friend's husband is pointing out the obvious and not cow-towing to them. I hope they can eventually pull themselves away from those pricks they currently call "brothers".
Sean
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SixofNine
Just thinking out loud here, *what if your friends husband threatened to break one or both of the nastier elder's legs?*
Anyway, think about it, if it works for you, use it.
Billygoat was right? Billygoat is ALWAYS right!
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slipnslidemaster
I don't have anything to add, I just want to follow this thread.
Slipnslidemaster:"The problem with Ireland is that it’s a country full of genius, but with absolutely no talent."
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Mulan
You're right, Sean. They are afraid we will sue. That is one of the rumors going around about us, that if they df us, we will sue them. What are they so GD afraid of??? From us??? Also my husband started a church, and we call people all the time to come join. What a riot!
There is a BIG elder meeting this Saturday at the Assembly Hall, for one hour. Does anyone know about it?
I would make a separate post, but am at my limit. DARN.
"No one can take advantage of you, without your permission." Ann Landers
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Princess
Gutless bunch of bastards and their petty sniveling wives. If they had just been men at the beginning and df'd the lot of us they wouldn't have to do all this with your friend and her husband. Now they are stuck with us roaming around the city making them look bad whenever any witness runs into us.
Princess
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messenger
All the basis they need to do anything they want.
*** w88 4/15 26-8 Discipline That Can Yield Peaceable Fruit ***
Why This Firm Stand?
4 Most true Christians loyally support God and his righteous laws. (1 Thessalonians 1:2-7; Hebrews 6:10) Occasionally, though, a person deviates from the path of truth. For example, despite help from Christian elders, he may unrepentantly violate God’s laws. Or he may reject the faith by teaching false doctrine or by disassociating himself from the congregation. Then what should be done? Such things occurred even while the apostles were alive; hence, let us see what they wrote about this.
5 When a man in Corinth was unrepentantly immoral, Paul told the congregation: “Quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man.” (1 Corinthians 5:11-13) The same was to occur with apostates, such as Hymenaeus: “As for a man that promotes a sect, reject him after a first and a second admonition; knowing that such a man has been turned out of the way and is sinning.” (Titus 3:10, 11; 1 Timothy 1:19, 20) Such shunning would be appropriate, too, for anyone who rejects the congregation: “They went out from us, but they were not of our sort; for if they had been of our sort, they would have remained with us. But they went out that it might be shown up that not all are of our sort.”—1 John 2:18, 19.
6 Hopefully, such a one will repent so that he can be accepted back. (Acts 3:19) But meanwhile, may Christians have limited fellowship with him, or is strict avoidance necessary? If so, why?
Cut Off Thoroughly?
7 Christians do not hold themselves aloof from people. We have normal contacts with neighbors, workmates, schoolmates, and others, and witness to them even if some are ‘fornicators, greedy persons, extortioners, or idolaters.’ Paul wrote that we cannot avoid them completely, ‘otherwise we would have to get out of the world.’ He directed that it was to be different, though, with “a brother” who lived like that: “Quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that [has returned to such ways], not even eating with such a man.”—1 Corinthians 5:9-11; Mark 2:13-17.
8 In the apostle John’s writings, we find similar counsel that emphasizes how thoroughly Christians are to avoid such ones: “Everyone that pushes ahead and does not remain in the teaching of the Christ does not have God . . . If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, never receive him into your homes or say a greeting to him. For he that says a greeting [Greek, khai'ro] to him is a sharer in his wicked works.”—2 John 9-11.
9 Why is such a firm stand appropriate even today? Well, reflect on the severe cutting off mandated in God’s Law to Israel. In various serious matters, willful violators were executed. (Leviticus 20:10; Numbers 15:30, 31) When that happened, others, even relatives, could no longer speak with the dead lawbreaker. (Leviticus 19:1-4; Deuteronomy 13:1-5; 17:1-7) Though loyal Israelites back then were normal humans with emotions like ours, they knew that God is just and loving and that his Law protected their moral and spiritual cleanness. So they could accept that his arrangement to cut off wrongdoers was fundamentally a good and right thing.—Job 34:10-12.
10 We can be just as sure that God’s arrangement that Christians refuse to fellowship with someone who has been expelled for unrepentant sin is a wise protection for us. “Clear away the old leaven, that you may be a new lump, according as you are free from ferment.” (1 Corinthians 5:7) By also avoiding persons who have deliberately disassociated themselves, Christians are protected from possible critical, unappreciative, or even apostate views.—Hebrews 12:15, 16.
What About Relatives?
11 God certainly realizes that carrying out his righteous laws about cutting off wrongdoers often involves and affects relatives. As mentioned above, when an Israelite wrongdoer was executed, no more family association was possible. In fact, if a son was a drunkard and a glutton, his parents were to bring him before the judges, and if he was unrepentant, the parents were to share in the just executing of him, ‘to clear away what is bad from the midst of Israel.’ (Deuteronomy 21:18-21) You can appreciate that this would not have been easy for them. Imagine, too, how the wrongdoer’s brothers, sisters, or grandparents felt. Yet, their putting loyalty to their righteous God before family affection could be lifesaving for them.
12 Recall the case of Korah, a leader in rebellion against God’s leadership through Moses. In his perfect justice, Jehovah saw that Korah had to die. But all loyal ones were advised: “Turn aside, please, from before the tents of these wicked men and do not touch anything that belongs to them, that you may not be swept away in all their sin.” Relatives who would not accept God’s warning died with the rebels. But some of Korah’s relatives wisely chose to be loyal to Jehovah, which saved their lives and led to future blessings.—Numbers 16:16-33; 26:9-11; 2 Chronicles 20:19.
13 Cutting off from the Christian congregation does not involve immediate death, so family ties continue. Thus, a man who is disfellowshipped or who disassociates himself may still live at home with his Christian wife and faithful children. Respect for God’s judgments and the congregation’s action will move the wife and children to recognize that by his course, he altered the spiritual bond that existed between them. Yet, since his being disfellowshipped does not end their blood ties or marriage relationship, normal family affections and dealings can continue.
14 The situation is different if the disfellowshipped or disassociated one is a relative living outside the immediate family circle and home. It might be possible to have almost no contact at all with the relative. Even if there were some family matters requiring contact, this certainly would be kept to a minimum, in line with the divine principle: “Quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person [or guilty of another gross sin], . . . not even eating with such a man.”—1 Corinthians 5:11.
15 Understandably, this may be difficult because of emotions and family ties, such as grandparents’ love for their grandchildren. Yet, this is a test of loyalty to God, as stated by the sister quoted on page 26. Anyone who is feeling the sadness and pain that the disfellowshipped relative has thus caused may find comfort and be encouraged by the example set by some of Korah’s relatives.—Psalm 84:10-12. -
ozziepost
G'day Mulan,
Does anyone know where in the WT it says that you have to cut all BUSINESS ties with disfellowhipped people?
Try this:
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*** w81 9/15 24 Disfellowshiping-How to View It ***
20 Other problems arise in connection with business or employment. What if you were employed by a man who now was expelled by the congregation, or you employed a person to whom that happened? What then? If you were contractually or financially obliged to continue the business relationship for the present, you certainly would now have a different attitude toward the disfellowshiped individual. Discussion of business matters with him or contact on the job might be necessary, but spiritual discussions and social fellowship would be things of the past. In that way you could demonstrate your obedience to God and have a protective barrier for yourself. Also, this might impress on him how much his sin has cost him in various ways.—2 Cor. 6:14, 17.
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At Kingdom Ministry Schools, the elders have been informed that they should counsel a brother having a DF business partner to close the partnership as soon as practicable. Reason: associating with a DF person!BTW we're sorry to hear of yet further anguish. You know that Mrs Ozzie and I know how you might be feeling right now!
Cheers,
Ozzie"It's better to light a candle than to curse the darkness."
Anonymous