Belief Polerization: A possible reason JWs are more convinced when facing critical information.

by bohm 25 Replies latest jw friends

  • bohm
    bohm

    Suppose two people, Alice and Bob, have different views upon some controversial issue. We might imagine Alice is a Jehovahs Witness and Bob is an doubting relative, and the issue could be: ”Is jehovahs witnesses Gods organization”.

    Now we give them both new information, some favorable to the issue being true, others unfavorable. In a perfect world where Alice [what the hell happened with that thread anyway?] and Bob are perfectly rational, we might expect that as they are given more and more information, their views will become aligned to a common agreement; ”most likely Yes”, ”properly not”, ”we cant be sure either way” or something like this.

    For example, we might both give Alice and Bob the following information from a reputable newspaper: ”Jehovahs Witnesses, an organization known for taking issues in court to prove themselves right, has settled many cases of pedophilia with victims, paying millions in damages, while hundreds or thousands more claim they have been molested and the fact covered up by the 2-witness rule”. Thats pretty damning, right?

    We might imagine the following process: Upon hearing this information Bobs belief is reinforced, but allready thinking it is most likely not Gods organization, his beliefs move very little.

    Alice, upon hearing the information, is rather shocked. While there may be explanations, it may also be true, and her belief move towards that of Bob.

    we might conjecture that rational people who are given the same information will tend to align their beliefs. we might take this as a strong argument for free speech and democracy. We would be wrong.

    We do not observe convergense of view in reality. Often issues start out as not very controversial, and the more they are discussed, the more divided people become for/against. Take Obama being a muslim (I bet noone held a strong position about that a couple of years ago!), 9/11 being an inside job (Ditto!) or if increased spending is the right way to get us out of the current crisis (an issue where even the learned people are extremely divided).

    To return to Alice and Bob – in reality, Bobs reaction is properly natural. However, i bet many here would agree that most likely Alice dont move an inch, in fact, she might become even more convinced and act more zeleous as she hear the information!

    Everyone has a theory for why this happend, and usually it involve some degree of irrationality (or worse!) in the other party:

    ”She is under mind-control!”

    "She use a logical fallacy!"

    ”Its her faith. She is not being rational/has to much invested in it”

    ”He only listen to Glen Beck and his goons”

    ”He only listen to the liberal media and their goons”

    ”he is to stupid/proud/stubborn to admit he is wrong”

    ”These people need a conspiracy to think they are important. They cant function in the real world”

    ”They will propose and defend any policy that is aligned with their agenda, and twist facts to suit it!”

    I bet all of us have used some of those explanations at some point.

    The truth is that we are being interlectually lazy.

    There are many situations where the same information told to rational people will cause their views to diverge – Bob is more convinced he is right, Alice more convinced she is right. Its downright eerie. Many psychologists who have observed it has taken it as evidence humans are irrational, while mathematicians have dismissed it can happend and claimed – to some embarresment – to have proven it.

    It can even happend where both Alice and Bob know each others reasons for changing their belief the way they do and would agree that if they were in each others shoes they would think exactly the same.

    The example with Alice and Bob could be explained this way:

    There are two ways of looking at the world. One is a JW-view; here the nature of God and the Devil is such that the Devil walk around like a lion, causing people to prosecute christians and smear those who preach Jehovahs name, and God dont lift a finger.

    The other is a more secular view, which is basically the opposite of the above.

    Bob: I mainly believe in a secular world, thus JW is likely not Gods organization. But even assuming it IS gods organization, this new evidence would not fit any way, because surely God would not torelate such a thing. Thus i believe they are Gods organization even less.

    Alice: I mainly believe in a non-secular world, and therefore i believe we are most likely Gods organization. When i hear this information, i think ”My God! Satan is now causing these poor apostates to accuse us of pedophilia!” it fit what i expect – more persecution - and i believe we are Gods organization even more.

    The above conclusions are rational. The fact the part of Alice which is not entirely convinced of the non-secular world view follow Bobs argument and is less convinved, but since she mainly believe in the non-secular world view, she is mainly convinced she is even more right. The same process goes on in Bob, and the result is that they differ even more after the information than they did before.

    My point is that one should not automatically assume mind control or Glen Beck to be behind seemingly bonkers reasoning that seem to defy logic from our POW. If Bob had told Alice she was under mind-control, he would be the irrational person, and she would be right to dismiss him as such.

    This is, ofcourse, not to say that Glen Beck is not an asshat and people become more stupid by watching him, or mind control is not real. I think both things are very true. But it is prudent to first assume rationality in the othe person, and try to understand how the other person react as he do. One should in particular be carefull when

    • One is reporting from a source the other find very or very little credible.
    • There are two ”World-View” or ”lenses” involved.
    • Situations where two people are very polerized.
    • Arguing from studies where one or more can be dismissed as ”possible noise”

    The best thing one can do in either case is to understand the others argument, and make very sure it is indeed irrational before attacking it.

    The assumptions may still be irrational, ofcourse. Alice had to base her view of a non-secular world view on something, and Bob should try and attack that (but notice that Bob does not win here per default, we all hold ideas that are not entirely rational). Or alternatively, he could see if Alice would agree Jehovahs Witnesses in reality have few pedophiles, and try to find a way to demonstrate this is false to alice in a way that could not be dismissed as the devils work - but i dont think that is practical, given her world view.

    In those assumptions there may be mind control, but there is not in the argument.

    Also, i personally think the best examples of belief polerization is not found in religion, but in politics and economy.

    Check this document out for more information: http://books.nips.cc/papers/files/nips22/NIPS2009_0599.pdf

  • bohm
    bohm

    70 views, no comments.

    Poor topic. I really need to limit myself :-).

  • notverylikely
    notverylikely

    No, it was a great topic, it was just long.

    I can sum up...some people have no critical thinking skills and don't want them. They tend to be theistic, close minded morons, but not always. And certainly not everyone that believes in God is a moron.

  • bohm
    bohm

    NVL: Thanks! Yah, there are people on boths sides of any issues who are moron - but thats trivial to get anyone to agree to: Just pick any controversial subject and ask them to describe the other side :-)

    But that the same information can be given to people with the same system of the world and then, even assuming perfect rationality their views can be driven further apart, that took me by surprice. I remember the first time i read about it i thought i had gotten it wrong untill i saw a numerical example!

  • Ding
    Ding

    The more time and money and reputation a person invests in something, the harder it is a fraud and break free.

    Jehovah's Witnesses invest their very lives in the Watchtower organization.

    The Watchtower masters require JWs to do a lot of things that drive a wedge between themselves and everyone outside the organization: Knocking on people's doors to the point of annoyance, telling neighbors and coworkers that their own religion is satanic, letting loved one's die rather than have a blood transfusion, refusing to stand during the national anthem, going to prison rather than accepting alternative service, viewing holidays and birthdays as satanic, and on and on.

    Meetings upon meetings, endless hours in field service, feeling superior to people who won't come into "the truth," yet fearful that if Armageddon came tomorrow you yourself might not survive because you haven't worked hard enough for Jehovah...

    You pour your heart and -- forgive the word -- "soul" into "God's organization."

    After all that, someone comes along and shows you a Bible passage that challenges it all.

    Or maybe you're confronted with all the Watchtower's false prophesies and its habit of blaming JWs "misunderstandings" for following the Society's encouragement to postpone marriage, medical treatment, careers, etc. because the end of this system was just around the corner.

    You don't want to believe it.

    You've invested your whole LIFE in this organization. You've "bet the farm" that it's the truth and you've burned bridge after bridge behind you.

    Are you easily going to admit to yourself that you wasted all those years serving the Borg? Is everyone outside the organization laughing at you? Did all those stubborn, evil, "worldly" people know more than you did all along?

    If you admt this to yourself, where will you go? You're doubting the Watchtower, maybe, but what if they are right? You don't want to blow it now. The end is so close.

    Given all that, it's no surprise JW suppress what they are seeing. You shut your eyes and plug your ears and stay with your heavenly "mother." The WTS never prophesied anything false... Their doctrinal changes have been spirit-led tacking in the wind... Armageddon really IS just around the corner this time...

    The psychology and fear on which the Watchtower depends are powerful forces that lead a JW NOT to believe what his logical mind is telling him.

    You know that if you DO finally admit that the emperor has no clothes, you will be disfellowshipped.

    In the face of all this, it takes a lot of courage to believe Jesus' words that the truth will set you free.

    My hat is off to everyone who does and breaks free.

  • bohm
    bohm

    Ding: i think you very adaquately described what is going on in the minds of many who are in high-control religions, but my point is that if two people get the same piece of information - in the example a newspaper article on pedophelia in the watchtower - it need not be a sign of mind-control that cause the unbeliever to become a greater unbeliever, and the believer to become MORE of a believer, even though they are reading the same article.

    Plausible reasoning alone may actually be an adaquate explanation.

    I think its a good point to make that just because the other party is behaving in a way that seem completely irrational from ones perspective, it need not be such.

    The phenomena i described have fooled many psychologists who have explained it by irrationality. Heck, i can give examples of mathematicians who believed they had prooven it to be impossible, see Howson and Urback "Scientic Reasoning: The Bayesian Approach" from 1989, p. 290.

  • notverylikely
    notverylikely

    Ding, that was a really awesome post.

  • Mary
    Mary
    The best thing one can do in either case is to understand the others argument, and make very sure it is indeed irrational before attacking it.

    And herein lies the basic problem with JWs, and other high control groups: they are not trained to be objective or try and "understand other others argument", they are trained that they are right and the other person is wrong, end of story. As Witnesses, we were specifically instructed not to accept an "apostate literature" from anyone at the door, heck---we were weren't even allowed to accept a flyer from someone from a different church. The whole idea behind this was that Satan was just licking his chops waiting to try and trip up one of Jehovah's Witnesses by 'independent thinking'. As we all know, 'independent thinking' is anything outside of what you might read in the Borg's literature as you have to start using you thinking and reasoning skills---two big no-no's in any high control group.

    Therefore, the only path left available is to quickly shut down the reasoning skills and 'irrationally attack' the other side without even stopping to really read what they have to say. The fact that they might be able to provide evidence that they are in fact, right and you are wrong, is irrelavant. The party-line cannot be challenged.

    Most often, this is because of the way the brain behaves whenever something comes in conflict with our pre-conceived ideas. Anything alternative to what we consider is 'truth', is automatically interpreted by the brain as being a threat to survival and the offending issue must be quickly discarded. That is why it can be so difficult try to reason with JW's (or other cult members). Their brains simply shut down when it comes to reasoning. You could tell them that the sky is blue but because their leaders have told them that it's really brown, then brown it must be, not matter what kind of proof you might give them.

  • Mary
    Mary

    Your post is spot-on Ding. The other day, my JW dad was telling me (again) that, had he paid into his pension from Day One, he'd have another $2,000/month. He never paid into it when he started working because the idiot elders specifically told him that "Armageddon will be here long before you retire!" and made him feel like an apostate for even asking such a question.

    So my father knows he got royally screwed but since he's invested his whole life into this religion, to admit now at his age, that it was all a sham, would simply put him in an early grave. So he carries on and tells me I 'need to come back to the meetings'. He was furious over the whole pedophile scandal when it was shown on 20/20 because it made sense, but it would also mean that this wasn't 'the Truth' in his eyes---something he will never admit.

    Why couldn't I have been born a Protestant?

  • Ding
    Ding

    In many ways, it's amazing that anyone comes out of this cult at all.

    And it's not just people who really didn't buy into it in the first place who make it out.

    It's also elders, presiding overseers, circuit overseers, ... even Ray Franz of the GB itself.

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