by whitman 26 Replies latest jw friends
They just make the rules up as they go along;
there are different rules (opinions) in different congs. different circuits etc.
You can't believe anything where JW's are concerned, not even their own Bible!
My wife's elders have disagreements with the branch office, over rules which are written and published by the WTBTS.
(confused)
Obviously, JWs hate to believe that anyone would leave the Truth because something is wrong with their Org, so it makes more sense to them to believe that the DF'd JW never had a true dedication and that is why they ended up in the ditch.
I agree but how can an elder make that decision since the person is still baptized in the eyes of the WTS? This will be interesting when the CO comes around, I have never heard of this practice. If this is true I am VERY happy since I know a lot of former JWs were baptized as a minor and never really pondered on what they were doing.
That is pretty gutsy of that elder to say that. I know DF'd people that have said they want their baptism revoked because they did it as a child, and therefore their dedication was not made with an adult conscience, hence the DFing was not applicable. It wasnt a successful argument.
It seems that the elder was more or less trying to comfort the person due to their mental state, but did it rather irresponsibly.
I personally know of a situation where this happened. It was over ten years ago, so the concept isn't new. It was determined someone's conduct leading up to the baptism wasn't in line with JW standards. So it was decided the baptism wasn't heartfelt and it was annulled. If I remember, the individual did an almost immediate fade and was gone quickly.
It makes me think about what probably are the vast numbers of baptisms that take place under pressure from family or elders. I think the growing numbers of really young people getting dunked attest to that. Some of them can barely tie their shoes or ride a two-wheel bike and they are making this very serious, life long decision.
The Watchtower knows this whole topic is a can of wriggly worms. I was baptized in 1971 - yes, in the dark ages. Even then, there was a trend of witnesses wanting to get baptized at international conventions because these gatherings felt very momentous. But they were talked out of it by Presiding Overseers (the arrangement that was in place before "bodies of elders) because there was a wait of up to two years for the next international convention. They were expected instead to get baptized at local conventions (then called assemblies).
Later, with an international convention now on the horizon, the baptized witness would say, "I wasn't ready when I was baptized at [the local] circuit assembly. I want to be baptized at the international assembly".
I know of at least 4 lcoal instances in the early 1970s where the Presiding Overseer conferred with the visiting Circuit Overseer and the alreasdy-baptized witnesses were re-baptized at the bigger convention. Sometime in the 1970s, however, the organizatiuon clamped down hard on re-baptisms.
I brought this up when I met with elders in the early 90s. I was baptized in 1960 at age 8. This was long before the change in vows in 1985. I never included the organization in my dedication, as the 1985 vows specified. Technically, I never joined... my dedication was to God exclusevely...not the wt society.
Coffee
A couple who were dating that I knew had a similar situation. They had been dating for about 6 months and then had sex. Full out sex. Hot steamy, body writhing sex. No 'heavy petting' or 'brazen' conduct. Anyways, the female was DF'd but the dude was scot-free because the elders felt that his understanding and commitment leading up to the 2 holy questions (he answered yes) was tenuous. So they wrote the Canadian branch and several weeks later gave a local needs talk on why it's important that your dedication be whole-hearted and why the dude was not DF'd while she was. Kicker was she was there at the talk. Can only imagine what she was thinking - epic fail. What a loophole *!
So they announced that his baptism was henceforth, forevermore, duly nulled and voided! So he had to go through the whole ordeal again and about a month before the baptism, he buggered off. So in the end he won. Got sex and a free ticket out. The couple never got back together either and she remained DF'd. Lopsided.
*disclaimer - Your mileage may vary depending where you live in the world, the culture, the mood of the boe, time of the month for the holy spirt and if the presiding overseer's wife is fully informed.
Cheers...
- should add that this occurred some 20 years ago. Since that time, I've only heard of this situation 3 more times.
This is not new BTW. This goes way, way back, HOWEVER it is a VERY tight (sorry bad place for innuendo) loop hole (innuendo again). The first question "we" (elders) are supposed to ask, and the first question the branch will ask, is "did the person ever Pioneer or sign their name on any type of application for special service".. cause if so that is taken as a sign that you were indeed dedicated. It goes deeper, but essentially it is very very very hard to make that stick. I suspect that this person had some sympathetic elders who were trying to help find a loop hole (damn innuendo again) and worked it out for the person. The cult is not in the habit of letting people make up excuses to leave with no repercussions. Sorry. Few if any of us will skate that easily....
This sounds like BS. As of a year ago there was nothing from the Watchtower regarding this!
It is not a new strategy, it has always existed as an option. Also, it is not an accepted practice, it was just an elder's personal opinion.
