An elder just wrote this on the "Prince" board... (page 3)

Smoky

Wow. I traveled to california a few years ago...and it was almost day and night, how different JW's (outside the KH) are. I went to a club and could not tell them apart from worldly (ordinary) people. I thought it was just me and my old school midwestern ass. They sure are more liberal in CA.

Smoky

Smoke'em if you Got'em

Tatiana

Hi Joliette. I'll look for you over there. I posted to the "elder" and he answered me with that same "why are you quoting from old issues?" that I always get.

My post====yes it's long. LOL

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w92 11/1 p. 20 pars. 17-18 Education With a Purpose

17 If Christian parents responsibly decide to provide their children with further education after high school, that is their prerogative. The period of these studies would vary according to the type of trade or occupation selected. For financial reasons and in order to enable their children to get into the full-time service as quickly as possible, many Christian parents have chosen for them short-term study programs in vocational or technical schools. In some cases youths have needed to be apprenticed to some trade but always with a full life of service to Jehovah as the goal.

18 If additional courses are taken, certainly the motive should not be to shine scholastically or to carve out a prestigious worldly career. Courses should be chosen with care. This magazine has placed emphasis on the dangers of higher learning, and justifiably so, for much higher education opposes the "healthful teaching" of the Bible. (Titus 2:1; 1 Timothy 6:20, 21) Further, since the 1960’s, many schools of advanced learning have become hotbeds of lawlessness and immorality. "The faithful and discreet slave" has strongly discouraged entering that kind of environment. (Matthew 24:12, 45) It must be admitted, however, that nowadays youngsters meet up with these same dangers in high schools and technical colleges and even in the workplace.--1 John 5:19.
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7/07 Kingdom Ministry:

Question Box

What are the dangers of using the Internet to associate with someone we do not know?

A number of Web sites have been designed for people to meet and correspond over the Internet. Many of these sites allow individuals to create and post their own profile, which may include pictures and other personal information. People who view the profile can then make contact. Such Web sites are very popular among young people, and some youths in the congregation have used them to interact with others who claim to be Jehovah’s Witnesses.

It is easy for a person whom we meet over the Internet to be deceptive about his identity, his spirituality, or his motives. (Ps. 26:4) An individual claiming to be one of Jehovah’s Witnesses may actually be an unbeliever, a disfellowshipped person, or even an active apostate. (Gal. 2:4) Reportedly, many pedophiles use such Web sites to find their victims.

Even if we are convinced that those with whom we are corresponding are in good standing in the congregation, conversations in such a setting can easily drift toward unwholesome material. This is because people tend to be less inhibited with individuals they have not met personally. They may also view online communication as private and feel that whatever they say will not come to the attention of others, such as their parents or the elders. Sadly, a number of youths from Christian households have been ensnared and have become involved in obscene speech. (Eph. 5:3, 4; Col. 3:8) Others have included sexually provocative pictures of themselves, suggestive nicknames, or links to sexually explicit music videos in their computer profile.

In view of the foregoing, parents should monitor their children’s activity on the computer. (Prov. 29:15) It would be dangerous to invite a stranger into our home or to allow him to be alone with our children. Similarly, it is dangerous for us or our children to make friends with strangers over the Internet, even if they claim to be Jehovah’s Witnesses.—Prov. 22:3.

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Watchtower '04 - 15th Feb"How can we guard against being deceived by apostates? By heeding the advice from God’s Word, which says: “Keep your eye on those who cause divisions and occasions for stumbling contrary to the teaching that you have learned, and avoid them.” (Romans 16:17) We “avoid them” by steering clear of their reasonings—whether in person, in printed form, or on the Internet."Watchtower '04 - 15th Sept"Seeds of doubt can be sown by the media, through the Internet, and by modern-day apostates."Watchtower '06 - 15th Jan

"Because of listening to the Devil and not rejecting his lies, the first human pair apostatized. So, then, should we listen to apostates, read their literature, or examine their Web sites on the Internet? If we love God and the truth, we will not do so. We should not allow apostates into our homes or even greet them, for such actions would make us ‘sharers in their wicked works.’ (2 John 9-11) May we never succumb to the Devil’s wiles by abandoning the Christian “path of truth” to follow false teachers who seek to “introduce ruinous ideologies” and try to ‘exploit us with well-turned phrases.’—2 Peter 2:1-3."Watchtower '06 - 15th Sept"We ought to keep far away from all immoral influences, whether they come through music, entertainment, the Internet, or books and magazines."

Watchtower '08 - 15th Feb

"...snares still claim victims among God’s people. For example, the click of a mouse at a computer in the privacy of one’s own home may be all that a curious or unwary person needs to ruin his good conscience. How sad it would be if a Christian were to be enticed by Internet pornography!"

Watchtower '08- 15th Dec

"At Psalm 101:3, we find David’s words: “I shall not set in front of my eyes any good-for-nothing thing.” There are many opportunities today to set in front of our eyes good-for-nothing things, particularly when we are alone. Access to the Internet has presented many with a challenge in this regard. It is easy to be lured into looking at suggestive, even pornographic, material. But is doing so an act of obedience to the God who inspired David to pen those words? Pornography is harmful, for it inflames wrong and greedy desires, damages the conscience, erodes marriages, and degrades everyone involved."

'GOD'S LOVE' book'08

"You can also absorb that evil spirit through objectionable literature, pornographic or apostate Internet sites, unwholesome entertainment, and highly competitive sports—really, through anyone or anything that conveys the thinking of Satan or his system."

'TEACHER' book '03

"Where do people learn a lot about violence and improper sex and spirits and ghosts?— Isn’t it from watching certain television shows and movies, playing computer and video games, going on the Internet, and reading comic books? Does doing these things bring us closer to God or closer to the Devil and his demons?"

Kingdom Ministry Sept '02

"Bear in mind that our heavenly Father has an appointed channel of communication, “the faithful and discreet slave.”That “slave” has the responsibility to determine what information is made available to the household of faith, as well as “the proper time” for it to be dispensed. This spiritual food is available only through the theocratic organization. We should always look to God’s appointed channel for reliable information, not to a network of Internet users.—Matt. 24:45."

Kingdom Ministry Jan '03

"Being surrounded by Satan’s world, we must exercise self-discipline, avoiding anything that could contaminate our mind or corrupt our heart. (Prov. 4:23; Matt. 5:29, 30) Christians are admonished that they “cannot be partaking of ‘the table of Jehovah’ and the table of demons.” (1 Cor. 10:21) This requires that we guard against unwholesome entertainment, bad associations, and dangers on the Internet. It also calls for our shunning apostate material."

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watchtower--0111/1p.6 SafeguardYourConscience

What Is the Message of My Music?

Music is like food. The right type in the right amount is good for you. The wrong type in any amount is bad. Unfortunately, with music it’s the bad stuff that can be the most appealing. “Why do all the good tunes get saved for the really ugly lyrics?” laments a youth named Steve.

If you love the sound, does the message really matter? To help answer that question, ask yourself: ‘If someone wanted to make me swallow poison, how would they coax me into taking it? Would they dip it in vinegar or coat it with candy?’ The faithful man Job asked: “Does not the ear itself test out words as the palate tastes food?” (Job 12:11) So rather than just swallowing a song because you like its beat or melody—the candy coating, so to speak—‘test out the words’ by considering the title and the lyrics. Why? Because the lyrics embedded in the music will affect your thinking and attitudes.

Regrettably, a great deal of today’s most innovative music features lyrics that promote sex, violence, and drug abuse. If you don’t feel that listening to such lyrics affects you, then you’ve already started to succumb to the “poison.”

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School and Jehovah's Witnesses, 1983, pg. 23:

"They hope their young ones will want to pursue careers, not as athletes, but as ministers of God. So Witness parents encourage their children to use after-school hours principally to pursue spiritual interests, rather than to excel in some sport.

Participation in organized sports, we believe, would expose Witness youths to unwholesome associations. ... So if Witness youths feel the need for extra recreation, their parents encourage them to seek such recreation with fellow believers, yes, 'along with those who call upon the Lord out of a clean heart.' - 2 Timothy 2:22."

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Watchtower, March 15, 1969, pg. 171 *

"Many schools now have student counselors who encourage one to pursue higher education after high school, to pursue a career with a future in this system of things. Do not be influenced by them. Do not let them 'brainwash' you with the Devil's propaganda to get ahead, to make something of yourself in this world. This world has very little time left! Any future this world offers is no future! ... Make pioneer service, the full-time ministry, with the possibility of Bethel or missionary service your goal."

Watchtower, September 1, 1975, pg. 543 *

"No Jehovah's Witness should want to go to college. Rather, work in the Watchtower Organization!"

Watchtower, August 1, 1975, pg. 451 *

"It is foolish to want to be a doctor or a lawyer."

Kingdom Ministry June 2001 for week starting July 2nd 2001

15 min: Youths—Be Wise in Choosing Your Career.

This is the first of three Service Meeting parts that will review Scriptural principles relates to supplemental education. Some Christian youths are pursuing secular careers through higher education, which is having a negative impact on their spirituality. This part is a discussion between two parents and their teenage son or daughter. The youth is at a point where a serious decision needs to be made about future goals. Although some may want to pursue financial advantages, prestige, or comforts of life, the family examine the Bible to see what it recommends. (See Young People Ask, pages 174-5; The Watchtower, August 15, 1997, page 21, and September 1, 1999, pages 19-21, paragraphs 1-3 and 5-6.) The youth agrees that it is wise to pursue a course in life that will serve him or her well in achieving theocratic goals to advance Kingdom interests.

http://youtube.com/v/7R4f9ygxDbk
We must also be on guard against extended association with worldly people. Perhaps it is a neighbor, a school friend, a workmate, or a business associate. We may reason, 'He respects the Witnesses, he leads a clean life, and we do talk about the truth occasionally.' Yet, the experience of others proves that in time we may even find ourselves preferring such worldly company to that of a spiritual brother or sister. What are some of the dangers of such a friendship?" Watchtower 1994 Feb 15 p.24

"Just think what would become of you if you were to abandon the protective environment of the Christian congregation. Many, recalling their futile course of life before they accepted the truth, simply shudder at the thought. (John 6:68, 69) You can continue to find security and protection from the woes and misery so common in Satan's world by staying in close company with your Christian brothers and sisters." 6/15/10 Watchtower p. 8, par. 19

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10/15/09 Watchtower article: Maintaining Friendships in a Loveless World

12

When a Bible student begins to make changes in his lifestyle, he may face a real challenge regarding friendships. He may have companions whose company he enjoys but who do not live by the Bible’s moral code. In the past, he may regularly have spent time socializing with them. Now, though, he sees that their activities could have a bad influence on him, and he feels the need to limit his contact with such companions. (1 Cor. 15:33)

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The Youth Book-chap.5pp.39-40

Masturbation and Homosexuality

Weakly giving in to sexual desires by masturbation will certainly not give you strength when faced with a situation tempting you to commit fornication—or even homosexuality. Just the opposite, it cultivates wrong thinking and wrong desire. In fact, masturbation can lead into homosexuality. In such instances the person, not satisfied with his lonely sexual activity, seeks a partner for mutual sex play.

This happens much more frequently than you may realize. Contrary to what many persons think, homosexuals are not born that way, but their homosexual behavior is learned. And often a person gets started when very young by playing with another’s sexual parts, and then engaging in homosexual acts.
One young man relates: "When I was young, I had very little parental guidance. I was allowed to go my own way, and do my ‘own thing.’ It was when I was only about eight years old that my older cousins introduced me to homosexual acts. I found these pleasurable, and so continued the practice with them and later with others. Soon it was almost a daily activity. At first I had no realization of doing anything wrong. My parents had not given me any instruction regarding moral conduct, and I never confided in them. "We then lived in a Central American country. Later we moved to New York city, where I finished high school. I also continued homosexual practices. The schools and city are filled with homosexuals, so there were plenty of opportunities. As I grew older I realized that what I was doing was unnatural, and was not right. But I continued because I wanted to. These sex acts had become very enticing to me." The youth was "hooked" on the practices, and it was only after great effort that he was able to overcome them. What motivated him to change? It was a desire to please Jehovah God. When he understood that God views homosexual acts as "unnatural," and that He totally disapproves of them, the young man fought these practices until he had conquered them. God’s Word is very clear on this matter, saying: "Make no mistake: no fornicator or idolater, none who are guilty either of adultery or of homosexual perversion . . . will possess the kingdom of God."—1 Corinthians 6:9, 10,

Awake 1989 July 8 p.27
"Since sexual immorality is based largely on self-gratification, it often leads to more debased acts. And fallen human nature being what it is, once an act becomes commonplace, its excitement tends to wane. Thus, some homosexuals have gone on to sadomasochism and other vile practices. One Bible commentary says that the effect of such base and unnatural passions . . . tended to debase the mind; to sink man below the level of the brute; to destroy the sensibility. A Bible scholar grouped homosexuality with crimes, which were utterly inconsistent with reason, nature, and their own and each others welfare.
Bible Standards Bring Peace
We can be grateful that God does not change his standards just to satisfy the passing fancies or perverted desires of men. Even as he does not approve of polluting the earth or of lying simply because more people want to do it, so he does not condone homosexuality though many espouse it with zeal. No matter what course men promote, Jehovah wants us to honor him and benefit ourselves."

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Watchtower 1976 February 15 pp.122-3
In recent years, homosexuality has swept the world. These homosexuals claim that they are 'bringing it out of the closet' and they brag by saying, 'We are proud to be such.' It was apparent that this erosion of moral standards could pose a danger or threat for God's holy people, so the congregations were alerted and wrongdoers were cleaned out. Likewise, unclean practices, such as masturbation, which can be a steppingstone to homosexuality, have been dealt with in a serious, yet understanding, way, to help individuals keep clean and pure in Jehovah's eyes.

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http://www.watchtower.org/e/20050408a/article_01.htm

Does God Approve of Same-Sex Marriage?

The well-known Biblical account of Sodom and Gomorrah reveals God’s feelings about homosexuality. God declared: “The cry of complaint about Sodom and Gomorrah, yes, it is loud, and their sin, yes, it is very heavy.” (Genesis 18:20) The extent of their sinful depravity at that time was apparent when two guests visited the righteous man Lot. “The men of Sodom . . . surrounded the house, from boy to old man, all the people in one mob. And they kept calling out to Lot and saying to him: ‘Where are the men who came in to you tonight? Bring them out to us that we may have intercourse with them.’” (Genesis 19:4, 5) The Bible says: “The men of Sodom were bad and were gross sinners against Jehovah.”—Genesis 13:13.

The men became “violently inflamed in their lust toward one another, males with males.” (Romans 1:27) They had “gone out after flesh for unnatural use.” (Jude 7) In countries where homosexual rights campaigns are pervasive, some may object to using the word “unnatural” to describe homosexual behavior. However, is not God the final arbiter when it comes to nature? He commanded his ancient people: “You must not lie down with a male the same as you lie down with a woman. It is a detestable thing.”— Leviticus 18:22.

Your Accountability to God

The Bible is clear: God does not approve of or condone homosexual practices. He also disapproves of people who “consent with those practicing them.” (Romans 1:32)

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Then he wrote this===

To comment on the cut & paste I still don't see where they say don't send your children to school as a matter of fact I saw where they say some education may be necessary. Also you must consider the time period you are quoting from 75, 60 etc then you did not need an education to be successful none of my aunts or uncles have degrees except 2 and ALL are very successful. When Reagan got in office things began to change in that area now u need a degree just to get a minimum wage job!I have been in my line of work for 18yrs and just to get a sales position I need a degree to sell products Ive known for 18yrs but they will give the position to sum snot nosed kid fresh out of college who don't know building products from a hole in the ground. So as times change the tone changeda little but they never said don't do it they did discourage it a little more then than now but as I said different time. plus it was more about not being distracted from your service to Jehovah if you did not have to be. The dangers are there still just as in any situation, but the biggest part of schooling they are against is sending your child away to college. I went to school as a servant, did not finish, my wife is in school now for nursing, I know another brother who went to school who is a teacher now, he is only 23. I know 2sisters in school now for nursing. my daughter is going for culinary arts once she graduates and my son for auto, my oldest went for electronics tech. He is 21 had him before I graduated highschool before I was baptized. So as I mentioned b4 yes sum can be unbalanced putting their view on others but I am an elder, wife is a pioneer, daughter is a regular auxiliary pioneer studying sign language and my son is on the same path. I know what is said and not said. Nothing has stopped me from advancing in the organization and everyone knows what I do no secrets plus I and my daughter have been on many assembly parts.

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Um...is he not reading the same things I am???

So I wrote this back---

Um no...one article was from '92 and the talk by the brother (of which I have verified the translation) was given in 2005. He clearly states that education is NOT to be desired, even comparing following the crowd to do so to suicide. The other article was from 2001. So basically what you are saying is that they give these talks at conventions and write these warnings to be studied at the Sunday meeting, and no one pays any attention to them? lol Cool. I wish it had been that easy when I was raised in the truth.

As a side note I cut & paste from your literature because my opinion and personal experience have been ridiculed and I've been called a liar too many times. I believe quoting from the society's own writings to be more effective...but obviously some people still 'see' what they want to 'see.' So it's more for the benefit of others here who want to understand.

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So he's disappeared now and hasn't replied.

But each time I have brought up past articles I always get the same response..."Oh, that was then, this is now." Laughable. But at least everyone else got to read the quotes.

smiddy

He`s 36 and he has 3 baptized children of their own accord ??? enough said

smiddy

steve2

Are you guys suckers or what? THis is the internet for God's sake. Anyone can write or claim almost anything provided it doesn't break a websites rules. He claims he's an elder. Well, I claim to be one too. Doesn't make it true. The lather this claimed elder has stirred up is revealing: Stop the endless quotes from boring Watchtowers already. Question what people claim - don't swallow it hook, line and sinker. Consider yourself scalded.

Tatiana

Scalded?? hehehe

ouch

Anyway, I quote as much as I do because of others who post there and some of the mods who are not JW's take up for their lies anyway. I used to post my experiences as a JW and talk about Prince and his hypocrisy, but I only post quotes from the literature now because so many others read my posts concerning JW's. It may seem over the top but I've been a member there for about 3 1/2 years so I know what works. The JW's there are so self-rightious and are always talking about how there are no rules concerning homosexuality and it's ok if Prince wears eyeliner because he's in show business.

Just doing my part for the cause.

JWoods

The JW's there are so self-rightious and are always talking about how there are no rules concerning homosexuality and it's ok if Prince wears eyeliner because he's in show business.

Why on earth would JWs on a Prince-worship website be worried about JW rules on homosexuality and eyeliner?

Is it possible they know something?

Tatiana

^^^^

Because people on Prince.org still claim Prince was or is gay (I never cared and still don't) and the JW's who post there get mad when he's called a hypocrite for performing at birthday parties and wearing makeup. They are always defending everything he does. His song lyrics, etc. Some of his new music is so not 'spiritual.'