Why Did God Commission Russell to Preach to People Who Would All Die Before Armageddon?

by neverendingjourney 20 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  neverendingjourney

  I've posted this thought before, but I've yet to get a lot of feedback. It's also not a point I see brought up very much on JWD, but it seems like a very simple, logical way of disproving Witness doctrine/eschatology.

  Witnesses believe that the parable of the wheat and the weeds is having its fulfillment in our time. That's to say that Jehovah began to gather his people in these last days so that those rightly-disposed can survive Armageddon. They like to cite Matthew 24's talk of Noah and pre-flood conditions as evidence that Noah carried out a preaching work to warn people before the flood came and wiped them all away. There is supposedly a modern fulfillment being carried out today where Witnesses warn people of Armageddon's imminence.

  But all this begs the questions: Why would God BEGIN warning people of the upcoming destruction of the world in 1879 when the Watchtower magazine was first printed. That was over 130 years ago. No human being alive in 1879 roams the earth today. They have all, without fail, died.

  It seems to me that this very simple point makes the whole JW house of cards come crumbling down. So which is it: Did God miscalculate things and begin warning people too early or was Russell simply not God's designated Noah-like messenger?

  Thoughts?
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  maninthemiddle

  I don't have an answer, but I have a thought.

  Did he start this warning in 33 CE?

  Are they just afraid of getting caught still alive in "the end"?

  Sounds like just as the rain falls on the righteous and the unrighteous so does death, and if death is the wage of sin shouldn't we all die at some point?

  Unless we are still on that day for a year timeframe.....that just leads to more questions.
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  neverendingjourney

  Did he start this warning in 33 CE?

  Although I'm not a believer, I think this is a better interpretation of the Scriptures. Ray Franz makes this argument in his books quoting from Acts to show that Old Testament prophecies that JWs believe are having a modern-day fulfillment today were actually applied by Christ's disciples to the immediate post-Pentecost era, such as those prophecies pertaining to the pouring of the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues.

  This in not, however, how the Watchtower interprets things. They believe their religious group (specifically, the faithful and discreet slave "class") was selected to warn mankind about God's impending wrath. Presumably, this warning-work began back in Russell's time or else their interpretation begins to fall apart. If the preaching work didn't begin in Russell's time, then was Russell not God's chosen messenger? And if it did begin in Russell's time, why would God "warn" a bunch of people who would all, without exception, die before Armageddon? What purpose did the warning serve?

  For instance, what good would it do me if someone warned me that my house would burn down...50 years after I die? According to Watchtower doctrine, the preaching work is supposed to serve the purpose of separating the wheat from the weeds in the last days in fulfillment of Jesus’ parable.
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  blondie

  In Russell's time they believed that the end was coming in 1914, not over a hundred years in the future. They also believed that only the infrastructure of government, commerce, and religion would be destroyed and that the vast majority of non-Bible Students would survive into the paradise on earth to be taught God's will then and then judged on their response.
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  BluesBrother

  It seems to me that this very simple point makes the whole JW house of cards come crumbling down.

  I agree with you...We have (in theory) an end-of-time apocalyptic message that has spanned three centuries ! It started in the 19th, all of the 20th and now well into the 21st century... I mean, is that credible ?

  When I put that to a dub relative though, the answer that I got was that if God could foresee wanting to save upwards of 7 million people then he had to start early to allow enough time for the Organization to grow that big ....

  Is there any logic in that?
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  maninthemiddle

  Iit is the people making the rules that belive the end will come in there lifetime.

  Russell thought the end woul come in 1914, Rutherford though the end would come in 1925, Franz thought the end would come in 1975 or after that, at least in his lifetime, and I am sure that the current GB believes they will see "the end".

  Most of the R&F think they won't die, this concept is nothing new.
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  leavingwt

  Parsimony: Russell was a false prophet.
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  Mary

  Bluesbrothers said: the answer that I got was that if God could foresee wanting to save upwards of 7 million people then he had to start early to allow enough time for the Organization to grow that big ....

  Oh please. What a ridiculous answer, although since it was an active dub who said this to you, it doesn't surprise me. Wonder what they would say if you replied "Then how do you know that Jehovah God may want to save up to 50 million people in order to allow enough time for the Organization to grow that big? How many more centuries would it take the Organization at its present growth to reach that number?"

  I guarantee, you'll only get a glazed look and furrowed eyebrow as your answer.
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  neverendingjourney

  When I put that to a dub relative though, the answer that I got was that if God could foresee wanting to save upwards of 7 million people then he had to start early to allow enough time for the Organization to grow that big ....

  The real problem here, of course, is that a fully-indoctrinated JW can talk himself into anything. That's how mind-control works.

  In Russell's time they believed that the end was coming in 1914, not over a hundred years in the future.

  That's part of the problem right there. Further to your and BluesBrother's comments, this religion was founded on a premise that the Armageddon would come very, very soon. As the years have passed (131 years since the first Watchtower was published), JWs have simply failed to explain this simple, yet gaping, hole in their doctrine. I suppose JW leadership doesn't notice it or hopes their followers won't (I know I never picked up on this while I was still in).

  A corollary to this point, and a subject that has previously been explored on this board, is that the great crowd that was "identified" in 1935 is supposed to make it through Armageddon alive. If those individuals identified by Rutherford as the great crowd (multitude) all die off, as they most certainly will soon if they haven't already, then they were never really the great crowd to begin with. Rutherford would have necessarily made an error in his identification.

  This second point, however, is probably more confusing to your run-of-the-mill, rank-and-file Witness. I doubt more than a quarter of active Witnesses know that the great crowd was supposedly identified in 1935. The first argument I made initially seems to me to be easier for an indoctrinated Witness to understand. Cognitive dissonance may require that they explain it away like BluesBrother's relative did, but you never know what might begin the independent thought process in an indoctrinated Witness. I know that after many confrontations with religious people in the door-to-door work I finally began to see that Witness arguments were not as strong as I thought.

  Going forward, the interesting feature will be whether the Watchtower bothers redefining their doctrine to cover up some of these inconsistencies or whether they will simply stop teaching a lot of this and hope people forget (in the 1975, Eve was created after Adam mold).
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  Liberty

  Great observation! Just one of many lines of evidence that can make the "whole JW house of cards" come tumbling down. Time has always been the Watchtower's biggest enemy. Time alone has 100% factually proven the Watchtower wrong over and over again. Objective time alone with no "apostate" opinion/propoganda involved has proven that the Society is/was completely wrong on a majority of their core beliefs.

  Unfortunately, cult believers( like JWs) are unmoved by facts, logic, and reality. Another logical question to ask would be, What good does it do any serious warning movement if it cries wolf for well over 100 years and counting without any of the multiple relevant prediction cycles coming true? Why would God (if there were one) support such an ineffective wolf-crying turn off unless He were stupid and/or just plain cruel? Straight thinking tells us that He would not and yet JWs are convinced that they own "The Truth" about these multiple "nothing happens" warnings.

  The excuse that God would need this much time to set up a "salvation infrastructure" as explained to BluesBrother doesn't hold water either since using this logic God should have just provided a continuous line of "true religion" from the advent of Christianity for 2000 years in order to build the largest possible population of "true belivers" to be saved when Armageddon finally happens. The Watchtower claims that there was no such true religion until they came on the scene relatively recently.

  Nothing they have proposed makes any damned sense and yet people still continue to believe it. How can they have a vital and immediate warning mission which stretches on and on with no real end in sight? It is a complete contradiction. This alone is evidence for those who claim 1975 was never predicted as the End by the Society, how could it NOT be, considering that the End has always been right around the corner year after year for well over 100 years. Any year throughout this entire period has been the possible date of Armageddon since that is the entire stated purpose of being a Jehovah's Witness. They are always and only predicting that the End is near year after year. This is the stated purpose of their entire existance and yet they do not see how self contradictory such a position becomes after a few hundred years.