Conditional love Vs Unconditional love

by highdose 11 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • highdose
    highdose

    A thought occured to me today that very rarely in the bible is god shown to have unconditional love. His whole basis of looking after the Israelites was about " do as i say and i will love you, but if you don't i will kill you!". Surely thats as about as conditional as love can get.

    Then of course there is Jesus dying for us. This is meant to be Unconditional love but the bible follows it up with all manner of conditions to this. Meaning that you only get this unconditional love if you are worthly of it, which is a contradiction in terms really.

    Then there is human parents who love their children no matter what. this is real unconditional love and appeals to us humans most. It would appear there fore, that the love humans show their children is of a better quality than the love god shows his.

    Thought please?

  • THE GLADIATOR
    THE GLADIATOR

    All love is conditional. We love according to the values we hold.

    For example a Christian who professes unconditional love is still unlikely to love the devil or his demons. They are instructed to hate what is bad. Though it could be argued that the devil portrayed in the bible is more honest than the Israelite god and not 'bad.'

    But leaving the Christians alone, because they are such nice people on the whole, we all place conditions on whom we will love unconditionally. Do human parents love their children unconditionally? Or is the condition that they are their children. According to the bible, God loves those who choose to become his children through adoption based on faith is Jesus. For the bastards, those left outside, a day of fiery judgement is reserved.

    I like to think that I am honest enough to admit that my relationships are conditional. To give your heart to someone is an act of great trust and must not be undertaken in a rash, careless and unconditional way.

    Hearts can be broken.

  • AK - Jeff
    AK - Jeff

    Don't know if I fully concur, Gladiator.

    I think there is a clear distinction between those we choose to love and those we don't. But it seems possible to me to have unconditional love toward those whom we have chosen to love.

    That said, it is certainly human to accept that love changes over time - but could still remain unconditional.

    For instance - while a Jw I developed a very close [totally platonic] relationship with a sister. We have known each other since our teenage years. When I left the organization, she cut me off - but I have never been able to forget her, and through the years I have occasionally emailed her, hoping for a response. The few responses I have received have usually been rude, angry. But interestingly enough - she has never blocked my email address, a very simple response to someone she truly wanted no contact with.

    Conditional love on my part would have long ago said goodbye to her - who wants to try to maintain contact with someone who is rude and unkind otherwise? Conditional love on her part would have meant a simple click on her email client to block me forever. This week I again emailed her - and she responded - rude at first, but two exchanges later, on a higher level of communication, if not exactly hugs and kisses.

    The change has occurred in that she too - unknown to me - four years ago left the witnesses [but likely still thinks like a Jw most of the time]. She needed someone to unload her troubled life upon - admitted that the elders have never even called her in 4 years - so, even in anger of my contacting her, she unloaded. Now, will our relationship ever be what it was? I doubt it. But I think both of us love each other yet. The love is not always displayed as it once was - but love is a multi-faceted emotion.

    Just my 2 pesos.

    Jeff

  • Ding
    Ding

    Please realize that the WTS religion, which has people WORKING and WORKING to MAYBE SOMEDAY obtain Jehovah's approval, is a FALSE GOSPEL.

    Jehovah's approval is a GIFT, not WAGES he owes us because of our good performance.

    Romans 4:4-6: "Now when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation. 5 However, to the man who DOES NOT WORK BUT TRUSTS God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness. 6 David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works."

    The OT law was a reward and punishment system, much as we use with young children.

    It was never intended as a way to show our righteousness or be saved from our sins. Romans 3:20

    Romans 5:20: The law was added so that the trespass might INCREASE." In other words, to show us how sinful we are inside.

    It was God's way of showing us the unrighteousness inside us and our INABILITY to work our way to righteousness so we would see our need for a Savior to give us a spiritual rebirth. Galatians 3:24

    That's why Jesus told Nicodemus that as a leader of Israel he should have understood his need to be spiritually reborn. John 3:3ff.

    Peter called this works system "a yoke... which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear..." Acts 15:10.

    Rule-keeping doesn't have anything to do with saving us. Galatians 3:21- Is the law, therefore, opposed to the promises of God? Absolutely not! For if a law had been given that could impart life, then righteousness would certainly have come by the law. 22 But the Scripture declares that the whole world is a prisoner of sin, so that what was promised, being given through faith in Jesus Christ, might be given to those who believe. 23 Before this faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. 24 So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law."

    The Israelites and their leaders didn't understand this; they tried to establish their own righteousness by works and didn't accept that righteousness would have to be a gift of grace from God through the new birth. Romans 10:1-4.

    The WTS doesn't understand this either. They teach that the "new birth" is only for 144,000, and even then the WTS doesn't get what the new birth really is about.

    The WTS religion is essentially an OT works system where Jesus made the down payment with the ransom sacrifice and we have to keep up the installments by theocratic works. That's not what "work out your own salvation" means at all. It means, "Now that you have been made righteous and accepted by God as a GIFT based on Christ's finished sacrifice, live like the new, saved person you are, doing good works that God will enable you to do." Ephesians 2:10

    Salvation is an unconditional GIFT from God obtained by repentance of sin and faith in Christ's sacrifice.

    Ephesians 2:8-10: "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith-- and this not from yourselves, it is the GIFT of God-- 9 NOT BY WORKS, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do."

    Notice that Paul is writing to people who HAVE been saved (past tense; done deal).

    What about "faith without works is dead"?

    That doesn't mean salvation comes by faith plus works; it means that a genuine spiritual rebirth will produce good works. If we say we have been spiritually reborn but we're unchanged inside, we're deceiving ourselves. If Abraham said he had faith in God but it didn't cause him to live any differently than before, it would have been evidence that his "faith" wasn't real.

    Why are repentance and faith required?

    God doesn't force Himself on us.

    If we want to go our own way, He lets us.

  • Deputy Dog
    Deputy Dog

    Ding

    Good job!

  • THE GLADIATOR
    THE GLADIATOR

    AK - Jeff

    Don't know if I fully concur, Gladiator.

    Most people don't concur with me Jeff. I have some wacky ideas! My younger brother has not spoken to me for 9 years due to his JW allegiance. I still love him unconditionally but only because he is my brother, which is a condition.

    I hope you and your sister can get close again.

    Ding

    Salvation is an unconditional GIFT from God obtained by repentance of sin and faith in Christ's sacrifice.

    Sounds conditional to me.

    You see I can't meet those requirements or conditions, so I will have to pass on everlasting life.

  • Deputy Dog
    Deputy Dog

    Glad

    Repentance of sin and faith are gifts from God as well.

  • THE GLADIATOR
    THE GLADIATOR

    Deputy Dog Repentance of sin and faith are gifts from God as well.

    Ah! I missed out on those presents.

    Must have been because I didn't celebrate Christmas for so many years .

  • moshe
    moshe
    Deputy Dog Repentance of sin and faith are gifts from God as well.
    Gladiator-Ah! I missed out on those presents. Must have been because I didn't celebrate Christmas for so many years.

    Don't you just love the people who give you those intangible or recycled gifts?- if they are humans, we call them cheapskates . When God gives us a gift that can't be seen or measured or verified, it's called priceless.

  • WTWizard
    WTWizard

    It's all relative. I do not have unconditional love for those who are bent on ruining my life. Simple as that--and, if this person has shown the same pattern all his life, I will not forgive him. Rather, I would just cut such mean spirited people out of my life--leaving him with outdated contact information, no e-mail (and if he does find my e-mail address, anything from him gets labeled as spam), and so on.

    But, that is pretty obvious. I do not judge people simply because they smoke (though I would like to see them quit, especially if it's ruining their health), their sexual preferences (as long as they don't get me involved in homosexual acts), or because they believe different from me. I view different beliefs as the Establishment teaching us that their way is the only way and no one else is to even be listened to (in an attempt to protect itself), and not as grounds to ostracize them.

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