The Bible Gods Word or Mans

by azor 57 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • azor
    azor

    I remember studying this book years ago and how it impacted my belief system. I no longer believe the Bible is God's word. However I do have a couple of lingering questions on this subject. Part of my curiosity is for my edification and the other so I have a response for believers.

    The 2 that I would like all of your thoughts on are.

    1- The Bible is not a scientific book but when it touches on science it is accurate. e.g. earth is hanging upon nothing, & placed above the circle of the earth. Is this the first time in history this was mentioned?

    2 - This one I believe is not in the book sited but related to the same subject. The Bible for the first time introduces a singular monotheistic god that exists outside of time and space.

    Your thoughts and references if you have some are greatly appreciated.

  • prologos
    prologos

    James 1, god is not moving through time,

    temple dedication, World can not contain him, especially when the world was small, at the big bang.

    god is from eternity to eternity, so he occupies time already into the eternal future, that is still ahead of us.

  • William Penwell
    William Penwell

    The Bible for the first time introduces a singular monotheistic god


    The Jews were not the first civilization to believe in a monotheistic god. This tradition was borrowed from earlier civilizations.

  • freemindfade
    freemindfade

    Consider that it also mentioned the earth as being stationary, having corners (four corners of the earth was not an established term like today, the meaning may have well been more literal). It speaks of the sun moving (granted at times this may have been poetic). The earth is described as having "pillars". And a circle is also not a sphere.

    Also in my personal opinion (warning opinion imminent) ancient people such as the Egyptians and Mayans had profound understand of the cosmos and astronomy. Sometimes i think we get hung up on the dark ages version of religion and it's utter stupidity to say that people before that were less or just as knowledgeable. We still don't understand how some ancient cultures knew things we didn't know again until only the last 100-200 years.

    Any accuracy in the texts of the bible, could have come like much of the wiser parts of the bible, from Egypt. The ten commandants came from the Book of the Dead. Some proverbs came from Egypt texts.

    Proverbs 22:17-18: “Incline thy ear, and hear the words of the wise: and apply thy heart to my doctrine. Which shall be beautiful for thee, if thou keep it in thy bowels, and it shall flow in thy lips.”

    Amenemope ch1: “Give thine ear, and hear what I say, And apply thine heart to apprehend; It is good for thee to place them in thine heart, let them rest in the casket of thy belly; That they may act as a peg upon thy tongue.”

    Proverbs 22:22: “Do no violence to the poor, because he is poor: and do not oppress the needy in the gate.”

    Amenemope ch1: “Beware of robbing the poor, and oppressing the afflicted.”

    Proverbs 23:1: “When thou shalt sit to eat with a prince, consider diligently what is set before thy face.”

    Amenemope ch23: “Eat not bread in the presence of a ruler, And lunge not forward with thy mouth before a governor. When thou art replenished with that to which thou has no right, It is only a delight to thy spittle. Look upon the dish that is before thee, And let that (alone) supply thy need.”

    Anything deemed even semi accurate I would write off to not coming from goat herding tribes. But taken from more advanced civilizations they were copying to to write their own foundation myth. Even better case-in-point

    There are countless examples of influences from Zoroastrianism

    Yasna 44.3 :4-5: “who made the routes of the sun and stars? By whom the moon waxes and wanes?”

    Isaiah 40:26: “Lift up your eyes on high, and see who hath created these things: who bringeth out their host by number, and calleth them all by their names: by the greatness of his might, and strength, and power, not one of them was missing.”

    Yasna 44.4:1-3: “who fixed the earth below and kept the sky above from falling?”

    Isaiah 40:12: “Who hath measured the waters in the hollow of his hand, and weighed the heavens with his palm? Who hath poised with three fingers the bulk of the earth, and weighed the mountains in scales, and the hills in a balance?”

  • Finkelstein
    Finkelstein

    1- The Bible is not a scientific book but when it touches on science it is accurate. e.g. earth is hanging upon nothing, & placed above the circle of the earth. Is this the first time in history this was mentioned?

    Really ???

    The Bible is advanced …advanced in what ????

    It is he that sits on the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretches out the heavens as a curtain, and spreads them out as a tent to dwell in: (Isaiah 40:22)

    And again…

    (Amos 9:6) The One who builds His upper chambers in the heavens And has founded His vaulted dome over the earth, He who calls for the waters of the sea And pours them out on the face of the earth, The LORD is His name.

    Now is the Earth a dome?

    In Isaiah 40:22 for example, the word “circle” doesn’t mean a spherical Earth. The word “chug” refers to a circle…a flat circle. Notice the word “tent” or “dome” in those verses. As specified in Amos 9:6, this vaulted dome or “raki’a” (See: Genesis 1:6-8) is what the ancient Hebrew believe to cover the entire world. It is said that this solid vault or dome held the Sun, the moon and the stars (Gen.1:14-19; Psalms 19:4, 6) and it also provided the boundaries to the divine (Job 22:14 and Proverbs 8:27)

    It also separated the water “above” from the water “below”. In fact according to these ancient Hebrews the blue color of the sky was attributed to the chaotic waters above the dome. This solid dome has windows and trap doors in which it release the rain and snow when opened (Gen. 7:11, Isa. 24: 18 and Mal. 3:10)

    According to rabbinic traditions, in Nachmanides Commentary on Torah (Rabbi Moshe ben Nachman 1194-1270) “Let the expanses become fixed; for although the heavens were created on the first day, they were still in fluid form, and they become solidified only on the second day when the Divine said “Yehee Raqiyaa.” (Also see: Nachmanides (Raban), Commentary on the Torah, vol. 1, pp. 33, 36.)

    This is clearly not scientific foreknowledge.

  • azor
    azor

    First I would like to thank you for your responses and your citations. They are very helpful. I am new to all of this as I just found out ttatt in September of 2014 and now branching into new territories.

    Fink - I am not stating that I believe these things. Point 1 is out of the jw book cited.

    William - Do you have any references? My wife was listening to a debate between Danesh D'souza and Hitchens I think and D'souza made this point. Hitchens did not address it. It stuck with her because I used to make that point after I read "The Gift of The Jews" by Thomas Cahill. I think the same as you now, that it was taken from another civilization. I just would like some sort of evidence as that is my new motto. Show me the evidence.

  • Finkelstein
    Finkelstein

    From a post I made yesterday ..

    the bible was entrusted by the lord and all the stories are genuine.

    Such as a world wide flood which there is no evidence of.

    Or the Tower of Babel event which supposedly every human spoke the same language before it but

    wait, archaeologists have evidence of different languages far before the Tower of Babel event.

    The supposed seven days of creation, yet there is scientific evidence and scientific methodology that says that the earth is millions of years old.

    As I said before the ancient Hebrews were compelled to create stories to build a believable powerful presence of their god , so they told great elaborate stories to do just that, just like many of other ancient civilizations of that time of human in history.
  • Viviane
    Viviane
    1- The Bible is not a scientific book but when it touches on science it is accurate. e.g. earth is hanging upon nothing,

    No, the Bible is not at all in any way scientifically accurate. The Earth is orbiting the Sun because of gravity, not "nothing".

    placed above the circle of the earth. Is this the first time in history this was mentioned?

    The earth is not a circle. Wrong again!

    The Bible for the first time introduces a singular monotheistic god that exists outside of time and space.

    The Bible is incredibly polytheistic.

  • azor
    azor

    Fink. I agree with everything you mention. The ones I brought out were 2 lingering items for me. As I have stated I do not believe the Bible is God's word or that there is a god at all.

    Thank you for continuing to expand on this topic. I am looking for specific info on the 2 topics. The first one evidence has been furnished. Does anyone have evidence for the second?

  • cofty
    cofty
    I just would like some sort of evidence as that is my new motto. Show me the evidence

    Well done!

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