Car accidents make the Congo BLOODGUILTY

by hamsterbait 22 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • hamsterbait
    hamsterbait

    Further to Sebastious first very good video on bloodguilt -

    Can anybody post the Kingdumb Misery saying that the entire congregation is bloodguilty if a brother accidentally kills somebody on the road?

    It seems ridiculous to claim that Jehoobie will have it in for all the dubby babies and their parents because of an accident on the road, but there it is.

    They say the elduhs should investigate - don't you think the police are better qualified to do this rather than window washers and cracker and cheese men?

    Dont you think Christ died for to cover for our mistakes and unintentional offences?

    (Does the Gibbering Buddy believe this?? What do you think?

    HB

  • ProdigalSon
    ProdigalSon

    The Watchtower is the LAST religion on earth that should be talking about guilt when it comes to blood. Sorry I can't come up with the KM, my CD Rom is ten years old....but do I think the GB believes it? No. I think they know EXACTLY what the truth is, and they just do as they're told by their black magician puppetmasters.

    ~PS

  • Alwayshere
    Alwayshere

    I don't recall ever reading that.

  • hamsterbait
    hamsterbait

    Alwayshere -

    I could not believe my eyes when I saw it. By that time I was wobbling like a run down gyroscope and virtually never there.

    I think it was the question box.

    nevertheless it was an item dealing with a member of the congo killing somebody in a car accident, and the bloodguilt of the congregation in that situation.

    Blondie can find it - I have no discs or litterature now, so depend on my friends here. (I cannot bear to rip open my scars anymore)

    HB

  • baltar447
    baltar447

    Ask and ye shall receive:

    *** w63 8/15 pp. 510-511 Questions From Readers ***

    Questions From Readers

    ? If a Christian driving an automobile has an accident that results in death to others, what would be the Christian congregation’s responsibility, in view of possible bloodguiltiness? What if the driver has violated “Caesar’s” speed or highway laws or has been careless?—K. F., West Germany.

    In cases of automobile accidents where a life or a number of lives are lost, the question of the extent of bloodguilt, if any, is certainly one that deserves to be considered by the judicial committee of the congregation with which the car driver is associated. Even if a law court decides that the accident was not the fault of the driver, it would be proper on the part of the judicial committee of the congregation to examine the driver and try to determine whether, in actuality, there could be bloodguilt attached to that driver. This is important because the congregation does not want to come under any community responsibility for the accidental loss of life, arising from a Christian’s carelessness or disregard for “Caesar’s” traffic laws.

    If the driver in an accident with fatal consequences is a representative servant of the congregation and it is established that bloodguiltiness is attached to him, it would not be proper for him to continue as a servant. If carelessness is the cause, the driver must bear the responsibility for such carelessness or lack of caution.—Gal. 6:5, 7.

    Thus if a road with a railroad crossing had no special warning lights, bells or gates, the driver still should have been careful to look before crossing. If a flying insect was causing annoyance, the driver should first have stopped the car and then remedied the situation. If a passenger in the back seat was speaking to the driver, he should have kept his eyes on the road, not trying to drive and also look at the back-seat passenger. If the weather situation was bad, more care should have been exercised by the driver. If the driver was drowsy, he should have relinquished the wheel to someone else, or he should have stopped the car and taken a rest until he got over his sleepy condition.

    Consequently, it would be proper for the congregation judicial committee to inquire into the matter and determine just how far the car driver shared in any responsibility for the fatal accident. It is well to remember that the unintentional manslayer in ancient Israel who fled to the city of refuge had to stand trial before the city authorities before he would be allowed to remain in the city of refuge, safe from the vengeance of the avenger of blood.—Num. 35:6-25.

    If the accident was due to circumstances over which the car driver had absolutely no control, then, of course, he could be excused and there would be nothing to blemish his record, should he be a responsible servant in the congregation. But if it is found that a measure of blame does attach to the car driver, it would then be in order to remove him from his position of service and not reconsider him for a position of responsibility for at least one year. This will make it known that the committee does not want any community responsibility for accidental loss of life to attach itself to the congregation by its maintaining in a prominent, representative, exemplary position a brother to whom a measure of bloodguiltiness is attached. If the blameworthy driver is not a servant in the congregation, he would, of course, not be considered for a servant’s position for some time after this. Since the driver is not a proper example to the flock, discretion on the part of the committee would also require that they wait a suitable length of time before giving him any assignments to instruct the congregation.

    If the car driver has been careless, it would be well for the committee also to counsel him and to help him see the measure of his responsibility. The committee would determine whether he realizes this and feels repentant about it and has appealed to Jehovah God for divine mercy through Jesus Christ.

    After the termination of his disqualification, as a result of which it is manifest that the brother involved has benefited as well as shown the right spirit together with due repentance, he might be appointed to some responsible position if one is available and there is a need.

    If the driver, however, continues to show carelessness or pays no heed to “Caesar’s” highway or speed laws, then he could not be considered for a servant’s position. A car driver ought not to exceed the speed limit that “Caesar” sets for his roadways, streets and avenues. If he is a dedicated Christian and does exceed the speed limit, not only is it a failure to render to Caesar the things that are due to Caesar, but there is also the pressing danger of accidents, with the possibility of fatal consequences.—Matt. 22:21.

    Those who have exemplary positions in the congregation should therefore set proper examples when they are driving. What kind of example would it be to the flock if an overseer were careless about “Caesar’s” traffic regulations? (1 Pet. 5:3) What effect would it have upon young men in the congregation if the overseer were a speedster? (Titus 2:6, 7) In view of the serious responsibility that goes with driving, Christian parents who permit their teen-age sons to drive their car should be certain they are properly trained and counseled. Especially do they need counsel concerning their responsibility to “Caesar” and to God, also counsel not to copy the worldly thrill-seeking youthful drivers who are so often involved in tragic accidents, usually due, somehow, to excessive speed. If any dedicated Christian engages in wild or lawless driving that results in destruction of the property of others or injury to other persons, then the judicial committee of the congregation should take appropriate disciplinary measures.

    Moreover, in congregational or other dealings Christians should not require others to be at a certain place or locality at a time that would clearly be impossible to meet without breaking “Caesar’s” speed laws. Sufficient notice should be given to a person so that he can travel at a lawful rate of speed. Thus if someone required a true Christian to travel to a certain place within a certain time and to do so would require violating “Caesar’s” speed laws, then the Christian will choose to obey “Caesar’s” law, taking whatever consequences might come as a result of such obedience. But it could be explained beforehand to a worldly employer, for instance, that the Christian’s conscience will not allow him to break the traffic laws.

    Most of the time, however, whether the driver realizes it or not, it is simply a matter of his starting early enough or of changing or reorganizing his schedule to allow sufficient traveling time. Then the Christian will not feel under any pressure or temptation to drive faster than he should. This compliance with the traffic laws of the “superior authorities” will not only help guard against fatal accidents with the possibility of bloodguilt being attached to the driver but also help ensure a good conscience, which is so vital to our eternal salvation.—Rom. 13:1, 5; 1 Pet. 3:16.

  • hamsterbait
    hamsterbait

    Baltar -

    Thanx for that - it shows it is not a new "understanding" - My query was definately AFTER 2000.

    Was it just after the beth Hell boy killed somebody on the road in carrying out of his duties?

    HB

  • Mythbuster
    Mythbuster

    Here's a more recent take from them:

    *** w06 9/15 p. 30 Questions From Readers ***

    Questions From Readers

    What is the congregation's responsibility if a Christian driving an automobile has an accident that results in the death of others?

    The possibility of bloodguilt deserves consideration because the congregation needs to avoid community responsibility for bloodguiltiness. (Deuteronomy 21:1-9; 22:8) A driver who is responsible for a fatal accident may incur bloodguilt if he was careless or deliberately violated one of Caesar's safety or traffic laws. (Mark 12:14) But there are other factors to consider.

    A manslayer who fled to one of Israel's cities of refuge had to stand trial. If the slaying was found to be unintentional, he would be allowed to remain in the city, safe from the avenger of blood. (Numbers 35:6-25) So if a Christian is responsible for someone's death in an accident, the elders should investigate matters to determine if there is a measure of bloodguilt. The government's view or a court's decision does not altogether determine what action the congregation will take.

    For instance, a court may declare the person guilty of some technical violation of the law, but the investigating elders may determine that no bloodguilt exists because the driver had little or no control over the circumstances resulting in the fatality. Conversely, if the court dismisses the case, the elders may conclude that he actually is bloodguilty.

    The decision of the elders investigating the case should be based on the Scriptures and the clearly established facts-an admission by the driver and/or the testimony of two or three reliable eyewitnesses. (Deuteronomy 17:6; Matthew 18:15, 16) If bloodguilt is established, a judicial committee should be formed. If the committee determines that the bloodguilty person is repentant, he will receive appropriate reproof from the Scriptures and will be restricted as regards privileges in the congregation. He would no longer serve as an elder or a ministerial servant. Other restrictions would also be imposed. And he is accountable to God for his carelessness, neglect, or lack of caution that resulted in the accident and fatality.-Galatians 6:5, 7.

    To illustrate: If weather conditions were bad at the time of the accident, the driver should have exercised greater care. If he was drowsy, he should have stopped and rested until he was no longer sleepy, or he should have had someone else drive.

    Suppose the driver was speeding. If any Christian exceeds the speed limit, this is a failure to render "Caesar's things to Caesar." It also betrays a disregard for the sacredness of life, for there is the possibility of fatal consequences. (Matthew 22:21) In this regard, consider something further. What kind of example would an elder be setting for the flock if he was careless about Caesar's traffic regulations or deliberately failed to obey them?-1 Peter 5:3.

    Christians should not require that others be at a certain place at a time that would clearly be impossible without their exceeding the speed limit. In most cases, however, it is a matter of starting early enough or of changing one's schedule to allow for sufficient travel time. If that is done, the Christian will not be tempted to drive faster than he should, but he will be able to comply with the traffic laws of the governmental "superior authorities." (Romans 13:1, 5) This will help the driver to guard against fatal accidents with the possibility of bloodguilt. It will also enable him to set a fitting example and maintain a good conscience.-1 Peter 3:16.

  • St George of England
    St George of England
    For instance, a court may declare the person guilty of some technical violation of the law, but the investigating elders may determine that no bloodguilt exists because the driver had little or no control over the circumstances resulting in the fatality. Conversely, if the court dismisses the case, the elders may conclude that he actually is bloodguilty.

    So the elders more qualified than the police to investigate the cause of an accident!

    George

  • KW13
    KW13

    For instance, a court may declare the person guilty of some technical violation of the law, but the investigating elders may determine that no bloodguilt exists because the driver had little or no control over the circumstances resulting in the fatality. Conversely, if the court dismisses the case, the elders may conclude that he actually is bloodguilty.

    <-- Tears of Laughter

  • WTWizard
    WTWizard

    I wonder what happens if the accident was a result of a foolhardy attempt to make it to the boasting session or out in field circus. It's a blizzard, very heavy rain, roads washed out, close lightning, very dense fog, extremely high winds, etc. The driver doesn't really want to risk going out in such conditions, but feels that if he doesn't, the hounders are all going to gang up on him next boasting session. So, against his better judgment, he goes out and ends up in an accident where innocent children get killed (perhaps in another vehicle). The accident was primarily the result of the condition that should have caused the boasting session to be cancelled.

    Or, suppose the person gets into or causes a deadly accident by a foolhardy attempt to obey the speed limit. This can happen if you are trying to pass, and suddenly you need to complete your pass. If you were to speed up to 75 MPH, you could easily complete it safely but you would be breaking the speed limit. Or, you could stay within the speed limit and cause a head on collision. Or, it can happen if you are trying to merge with expressway traffic--itself doing 80 (the speed limit 55). In those circumstances, doing the speed limit would actually lead to an accident, where someone could actually die. Or, you are on a freeway (speed limit 65) and everyone else is doing around 80. The maximum safe, reasonable, and prudent speed on that road at that time is around 90, and you are only doing 65. Someone pulls up to your bumper and whizzes by at the speed of traffic, and causes an accident. Who is responsible for that?

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