Disfellowshipping is a loving thing? Awake, 9-8-96

by California Sunshine 11 Replies latest jw friends

  • California Sunshine
    California Sunshine

    I’m seeking advice….

    I know, I would be talking into the wind. But I would like to answer this STINKING article that was in the Awake mag. I’m doing it for me, not for anyone else!

    For you to understand I guess I’ll have to start at the beginning.

    I’ve been out of dubdom for about 20yrs (give or take a few). I come from a family of five siblings. This cult has forever divided us. Two are and three aren’t JWs. There are terrible hard feelings between the ones who are and the ones who aren’t. One of us was Dsfd 35 years (yes, 35 years) ago and it all sort of revolves around that.

    Anyway before I get off the track……My present husband isn’t a JW, never has been. This is my second marriage. We’ve been married 16 years. My husband is a nice guy. Likes to go camping and fishing. Stays home most of the time and does projects around the house. Rides his Harley. Helps out with the cookin and the cleanin. You know the type.

    A couple of years ago a JW (I’ll call him Bob) came to the house and started a little aquaintence/friendship with my husband. I think he likes my husband as a person and they talk about fishing trips and etc. My husband has even given him fish from our trips and I think Bob just would like him to become interested so they could be “legal” friends. I have explained to my husband that I would never pick his friends for him but if he wants to become a JW that I will have no choice but to get a divorce. I’ve already been there and done that and don’t want any part of it. He laughs at me and says he could never give up the holidays and birthday presents so I have nothing to worry about.

    A few visits ago my husband confronted Bob on the JWs practice of shunning people. Even though he doesn’t know that much about it. He only knows what he’s overheard when he hears my daughter and I talking and he read some emails I had printed out on the subject. The only thing he ever said was “This religion can’t be good if it hurts familys like this”. Anyway, they discussed it for about thirty minutes. Bob said he would bring him some information about it and the following article is what he brought about a week ago.

    I would like to type out a response to this rediculous article and clip it to the magazine and hand it back to Bob and dare him to read it!

    So any thoughts you would like to share with me on the subject of this article out be much appreciated.

    Sunny

    Well guys, I guess I have a lot to learn. I've tred unsuccessfully to copy that article to this post and I can't make it work. It is the Sept. 8th, 1996 Awake Mag. pages 26 and 27. If someone would post it for me I would be forever grateful.

  • concerned mama
    concerned mama

    Yes, I would very much like to read it as well. Does anyone have it? If you do, would you mind posting it please?
    Thanks

  • QUEENIE
    QUEENIE

    YES I HAVE EXPERIENCED disfellowshipment and reinstatment -- in and out and 10 yrs ago I decided to disass myself and go with the flow and this is the way it is folks..THIS community is full of religious cults including JWs so when I feel a need for BIBLE thumping I can take my KJ version and thump away...I AM JUST BEING OLE ME!!!

  • DakotaRed
    DakotaRed

    Is this what you are seeking, the entire Awake article?

    *** g96 9/8 26-7 Why Disfellowshipping Is a Loving Arrangement ***
    The Bible’s Viewpoint

    Why Disfellowshipping Is a Loving Arrangement

    EXCOMMUNICATION—the very idea stirs up mixed feelings among many religious people. Most people agree that religions need some sort of discipline. But many view excommunication as a relic from the past—a harsh style of discipline that reminds them of witch-hunts and inquisitions.

    Adding to the problem is the pervasive influence of the secular world. Thus, most of Christendom’s religions have adopted a more tolerant view of sin. Little wonder, then, that one Episcopalian minister said: “Excommunication is part of our tradition, but I don’t think it’s been invoked in this century.”

    However, many people may be surprised to learn that among Jehovah’s Witnesses, disfellowshipping (the equivalent of excommunication) is taken seriously. Granted, it is not an easy action to take, but it is a loving arrangement. How so?

    It Upholds God’s Name

    Jehovah is a holy God. He does not tolerate deliberate sin on the part of those claiming to worship him. The apostle Peter wrote to Christians: “Become holy yourselves in all your conduct, because it is written: ‘You must be holy, because I am holy.’” (1 Peter 1:15, 16) So disfellowshipping unrepentant sinners upholds God’s holy name; it shows love for that name.—Compare Hebrews 6:10.

    Does this mean that if a Christian succumbs to weakness or stumbles into grave sin, he is automatically expelled from the congregation? By no means! Jehovah is not a coldhearted dictator. He is merciful and understanding. He remembers that we are imperfect. (Psalm 103:14) Jehovah recognizes that “all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.” (Romans 3:23) God has arranged for spiritual help within the congregation so that if a Christian takes a “false step” or even commits a serious sin, he may be lovingly ‘readjusted’ in a spirit of mildness. (Galatians 6:1) By accepting counsel from God’s Word and demonstrating heartfelt sorrow and genuine repentance, one who has strayed from the path of righteousness can “get healed” spiritually.—James 5:13-16.

    What, though, if a baptized Christian seriously errs and all efforts to restore him are unsuccessful? In other words, what if he stubbornly refuses to correct his sinful course?

    It Keeps the Congregation Safe

    The Bible commands Christians: “Quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man.”—1 Corinthians 5:11.

    Is this Bible law harsh and demeaning? Just consider this: When a hardened criminal is sent to prison for breaking the law, is that viewed as harsh or coldhearted? No, because the public has the right to safeguard the peace and security of the community. In effect, the criminal is disfellowshipped from law-abiding society during his prison term.

    Similarly, the Christian congregation is justified in expelling unrepentant wrongdoers from their midst. Why? Because the congregation must be a haven from immoral predators and other willful practicers of sin.

    Realizing that “one sinner can destroy much good,” the apostle Paul commanded fellow believers: “Remove the wicked man from among yourselves.” (Ecclesiastes 9:18; 1 Corinthians 5:13) This action prevents the sinner from spreading corruption in the congregation, and it protects the congregation’s good name.—Compare 1 Timothy 3:15.

    Protection for Individuals

    Disfellowshipping also protects individual members of the congregation. Let us illustrate: Imagine being roused from sleep by the noisy blast of a car horn or alarm. The piercing sound is difficult to ignore; indeed, it startles you! Likewise, when someone is expelled from the congregation, the action hopefully grabs the attention of every member of the flock. It disturbs their senses. It cannot be ignored. How may this be a protection?

    “When I first heard at the Kingdom Hall that someone had been disfellowshipped, my initial reaction was shock,” says one Witness. “Then it humbled me. It made me realize that I too could fall.” As her words indicate, disfellowshipping can move others to take stock of their conduct.—1 Corinthians 10:12.

    By asking ourselves questions such as ‘Are there any areas of my life in which I am spiritually vulnerable?’ we can be helped to examine our own standing with God. In this way we can continue to ‘work out our own salvation with fear and trembling.’—Philippians 2:12.
    Return to God

    “As hard as it was,” said one Christian who was expelled for a time, “the discipline was necessary and much needed, and it proved to be lifesaving.” This highlights another important aspect of disfellowshipping. It can move previously unrepentant sinners to take their first steps back to God.

    The apostle Paul said: “Whom Jehovah loves he disciplines.” (Hebrews 12:6) And while it is true that “no discipline seems for the present to be joyous, but grievous; yet afterward to those who have been trained by it it yields peaceable fruit, namely, righteousness.”—Hebrews 12:11.

    That is what happened to Richard. After being disfellowshipped for almost two years, he repented, corrected his God-dishonoring conduct, and was accepted back into the Christian congregation. Looking back, he says regarding the experience: “I realize that I had to be disfellowshipped and that I fully deserved what I got. It really was necessary and helped me to see just how serious my course was and the need to seek Jehovah’s forgiveness.”

    Discipline may not be easy to endure. Accepting it requires humility, but those who learn from it reap bountiful fruitage.

    Therefore, disfellowshipping is a loving arrangement because it upholds God’s holy name and it protects the congregation from the corrupting influence of sin. Also, it demonstrates love for the wrongdoer by encouraging him to repent and “turn around so as to get [his] sins blotted out, that seasons of refreshing may come from the person of Jehovah.”—Acts 3:19.

    [Footnote]
    Excommunication is a disciplinary action that results in exclusion from membership in a religion.

    [Picture Credit Line on page 26]
    The New Testament: A Pictorial Archive from Nineteenth-Century Sources, by Don Rice/Dover Publications, Inc.

    If God's Spirit is filling a Kingdom Hall, how is it that Satan can manuever the ones within that Kingdom Hall at the same time?

  • Gopher
    Gopher

    Thanks Dakota Red for posting the article.

    The article is superficial and puts a "happy face" on an evil practice. It doesn't go into HOW disfellowshipping is done (by 3-men committees, where does the Bible say that??) and the effect it has on families (breaking up marriages, isolating innocent grandchildren, just to name two).

    Suppose this article had been written by extreme Muslims who were defending the Taliban practice of beating Afghani women in public for the most minor of offenses. They would use phrases like, "many people view our style of religious discipline as a relic... reminds people of inquisitions", "the problem is the pervasive influence of the secular world", other religions "have adopted a more tolerant view of sin". Yes, they could have written, it looks harsh the way we treat those who do not uphold our view of the Koran, but it is a loving arrangement!

    Going back to the JW's, the DF'ing arrangement obviously can be used to control the emotions of its members. Just look at this quote from the article:

    Likewise, when someone is expelled from the congregation, the action hopefully grabs the attention of every member of the flock. It disturbs their senses. It cannot be ignored. How may this be a protection?

    “When I first heard at the Kingdom Hall that someone had been disfellowshipped, my initial reaction was shock,” says one Witness. “Then it humbled me. It made me realize that I too could fall.”

    So rather than teaching by positive reinforcement, it cracks the whip to induce shock among the membership!! Christlike, indeed. The article goes on to say,
    In this way we can continue to ‘work out our own salvation with fear and trembling.
    Yeah? Fear and trembling at Jehovah, or at unreasonable elders who can crack the whip? This disfellowshipping practice creates a bunch of folks who are eager to please their fellow men and put the organization above the needs of individuals, at any cost.

    Poor Richard, quoted in the article. What an example. He said,

    “I realize that I had to be disfellowshipped and that I fully deserved what I got."
    Yes, indeedy. This practice beats the fear of God into the membership, making them think they actually deserve this humiliating treatment. People who come back are never viewed quite the same. They are gossipped about during the time they are away, and when they come back, they are remembered as "the one who was once disfellowshipped". They may never know why, or they may never know that the judgment may not have been deserved.

    Yes, the article only proves that at times disfellowshipping serves its purpose of scaring the membership at large and beating one of Christ's "slaves" into submission. Most of the time, it just scares the shunned one away. I can't believe I ever accepted poppycock like was written in this "geez aren't we a great organization" Awake! article.

    GopherWhy shouldn't truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense.
    Mark Twain (1835-1910)

  • DakotaRed
    DakotaRed

    Since they consider DFing so loving, wouldn't that make those of us who DA'd even more loving????? Isn't it loving that we told them to go rot in hell?

    Just think, it didn't even take a committee to pretend to pray and be told by God to throw us out, we did it on our own.

    If God's Spirit is filling a Kingdom Hall, how is it that Satan can manuever the ones within that Kingdom Hall at the same time?

  • freeman
    freeman

    California Sunshine,

    This may help you. Several months back, I forbade my 12 year old son from attending meetings anymore since he was told he had to shun his two friends because the “the society said so”. I challenged my wife, “a full blown dub” to produce anyone that could overcome the scriptural arguments I presented below. They sent the PO. He was smart, he was their best; but he was unable to do so.

    The first thing to remember is that Witnesses are not really Christians in the true sense, they are more like Jews, they like being under law and will always try to use Old Testament proof texts. Strait off I told this Elder that we are not under the Law of the Jews and that I will not listen to any Old Testament arguments that undermine the teachings of Jesus. If he wants to use them as a reference, fine, but the New Testament is the final word. He agreed to this. Here is what I presented; I hope it can be of some use to you:
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------

    The point of this writing is to demonstrate by way of scripture that the Watchtower Society's current shunning doctrine and practices do not adhere to the Bible and this is why I am at odds with this practice of shunning.

    The primary scripture for consideration is:

    But now I am writing you to quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man.--1.Cor. 5:11 (NWT)

    The text is clear that a person with whom the congregation should not mix company is one who is:
    1) "called a brother" (that is, one who professes to be a member of the congregation); and
    2) practicing fornication, greed, idolotry, reviling (insulting), habitual drunkeness, and/or extortion (theft).

    The scripture mentions only these serious wrongdoings, however, Jehovah's Witnesses do disfellowship and shun people for the following reasons:

    No longer claiming to be called a brother/sister.
    Independent study and discussion of the Bible that brings Watchtower doctrine into question.
    Possession of literature written by former members.
    Having lunch, dinner etc. with a former member, even if the former member professes to be a Christian and was not disfellowshipped for fornication, greed, idolotry, reviling, drunkeness, or extortion as the above scripture outlines.

    Authorizing for a minor in one’s care or one’s self a blood transfusion, provided the components of this transfusion are not on the approved list of minor components.

    And numerous other actions never mentioned in scripture, but deemed by the congregation elders to be "unclean conduct," or "conduct unbecoming" of a Jehovah's Witness, smoking is such an example. Therefore "conduct" in this case covers a very broad range of actions not defined by scripture and thus leaving it to the discretion of the congregation's elders. As a result, standards by which people may be disfellowshiped are inconsistent.

    Now consider this portion of the scripture sited below:

    "Not to be mixing in company with" . . . "not even eating with . . ."
    Here it is important to learn the customs of association for worship practiced by first-century Jews and Christians, bearing in mind that Jesus and the apostles were Jews. They lived according to the Jewish lifestyle and customs of their day. Jesus taught in the synogogues; hence, he was called "Rabbi." Matt.26:25; 26:49; Mark 9:5; 11:21; 14:25; John 1:38, 49; 3:2, 26; 4:31; 6:25; 9:2; 11:8
    There were two kinds of association for religious worship:

    1) public meetings, such as at the temple and in synogogues, which anyone was allowed to attend; and

    2) private gatherings of the different sects.
    Christians and Jews participated in both. Christians, met in private homes, usually over a special meal with prayer. A presiding minister hosted the meal using either fellowship funds or personal funds. (Acts 20:20; see the footnote in older editions of the NWT)

    Christians were instructed to "greet" one another with a kiss. (Rom.16:16; 1.Cor.16:20; 2Cor.13:12; Ti.3:15; 1Pet.5:14) When Paul sent his "greetings" in a letter to the Christians in Thessalonica, he requested that the "brothers" be greeted by a "holy kiss" on his behalf. (1Thess.5:26)

    If you recall, it was by this sign that Judas betrayed Jesus. (Luke 22:47,48)

    Clearly, Paul did instruct Christians to expel from the congregation's fellowship any person who was purposely practicing willful sin. The disassociation would quite naturally exclude them from being greeted by the identifying "holy kiss," as well as not being allowed to share in meetings and the meals for Christian worship and prayer. However, Paul's instruction did not prohibit normal conversation or witnessing to former members. Nor were they barred from attending worship in the temple or the synagogues. Jesus, the apostles and Paul, along with the rest of the Jews, worshipped God both publicly in the temple and synagogues, and privately with small groups in various homes. (Acts 5:42) It was from the private Christian fellowship for worship that sinners were excluded.
    Now what of 2 John 10,11?

    If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, never receive him into your homes or say a greeting to him. For he that says a greeting to him is a sharer in his wicked works.--2 John 11 (NWT)

    FACT: The above scripture is not about people who have been expelled from the Christian congregation. When read in context, it is about anyone who "does not bring this teaching" [of the Christ]. Because they held congregation meetings in their homes (which might be little more than a dug-out or tent outside the city walls of Jerusalem), in their culture their neighbors might view inviting a non-Christian into the home as the Christian sharing worship with non-Christians
    Jehovah's Witnesses, while shunning disfellowshipped or disassociated persons, do not prohibit them from attending the congregation meetings at their Kingdom Halls. Yet the congregation was specifically where Paul instructed Christians not be be "mixing in company with" disfellowshipped sinners.

    If the scripture at 2 John 10 were observed literally by Jehovah's Witnesses, they would be obliged to never invite anyone other than a Jehovah's Witness in good standing into their home, or ever speak a greeting to anyone other than a Jehovah's Witness. Does this make sense?

    How did Jesus say one expelled from congregation should be treated?
    Moreover, if your brother commits a sin, go lay bare his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. But if he does not listen, take along with you one or two more, in order that at the mouth of two or three witnesses every matter may be established. If he does not listen to them, speak to the congregation. If he does not listen even to the congregation, let him be to you just as a man of the nations ['Gentile' in some translations] and as a tax collector.--Matt.18:15-17 (NWT)

    The instruction was to bring up the matter of sin first between the two individuals alone. Then, if the sinner would repent, there was no need to carry the matter further. If the sinner was not repentant, then one or two others should be sought for witnesses. If the sinner remained unrepentant, only then, as a last resort, should it BE BROUGHT BEFORE THE ENTIRE CONGREGATION and not privately with the "elders as is now the practice.

    If, after all that, the person still would not listen, he should then be treated the same as Gentiles and tax collectors. In other words, Christians were to treat former members just like anyone else who was not a member of the congregation. To be treated like a "man of the nations" (which is to say, a Gentile or foreigner). This is far removed from being shunned. Jewish people worked with, associated with, transacted business with, and preached to Gentiles. As for "tax collectors," Jesus ate and associated with them. Matthew was a tax collector. Tax collectors were not popular, but they were not shunned.

    Note the example Jesus presents us with: "Next, while passing along from there, Jesus caught sight of a man named Matthew seated at the tax office, and he said to him: "Be my follower." Thereupon he did rise up and follow him. Later, while he was reclining at the table in the house, look! many tax collectors and sinners came and began reclining with Jesus and his disciples. But on seeing this the Pharisees began to say to his disciples: "Why is it that your teacher eats with tax collectors and sinners?"

    Hearing [them], he said: "Persons in health do not need a physician, but the ailing do. Go, then, and learn what this means, 'I want mercy, and not sacrifice.' For I came to call, not righteous people, but sinners."---Matt 9:9-13 NWT

    Conclusion

    There is no basis in scripture for mandating that Christians must totally shun former members (that is, to have no communication or conversation with them). The instruction is very clear to expel them from the congregation to keep it clean but to treat them like anyone else who is not a member. To go beyond what the scriptures teach, no matter how well intentioned is simply wrong!

    I believe I have adequately demonstrated by way of scripture that the Watchtower Society's current shunning doctrine and practices do not adhere to the Bible and the example of Christ, and therefore that is why I myself will not adhere to this practice. I truly believe this is a destructive and divisive policy and practice. Further I will not let children under my care be improperly influenced by what I consider an abhorred and un-Christian practice and therefore I will denounce this practice both publicly and privately as necessary for their protection.

    freeman

  • ashitaka
    ashitaka

    I love the fact that people say that I've 'gone back to my own vomit'.

    How nice.

    But, at least not I'm not swimming in shit.

  • California Sunshine
    California Sunshine

    Dakota Red,

    I am in your debt and thank you.

    freeman,

    Great stuff and I am going to borough it along with some other info I've come accross.

    Gopher,

    Thank you too

    Bob may refuse to read it.....but I will feel better!

    Sunny

  • concerned mama
    concerned mama

    Thank you, Dakota Red , for providing the text, and freeman for you clear rebuttal. I know shunning is wrong, but it is helpful to clearly have it in writing why it is wrong.

    concerned mama

    edited because I can't spell the first time I write things

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