by wobble 14 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
I ask because I threw down the challenge on another thread that if any agreed with Debator/Reniaa's apologetics in any area would they please post so that we can see where JW's are correct in their teachings.
Nobody supported Deb/Ren's points.
I do not ask for a list of "correct" JW teachings, just where is Deb/Ren's correct presentation of WT/JW beliefs that stand scrutiny and are truth.
If there are none then we do not need to engage in any kind of talk with deb/ren.
Are you saying that Renaii has resurrected as debator now???
good question:
before I answer, I may shortly question the term "believing JW".
Do you mean any still active ? or do you mean fully indoctrinated ones (which rareley would be here )?
If you mean still active, but belonging to the consciuos class, then I will try to answer:
Most, if not all of what deb/ren wrote is full of logical fallacies, flaws, errant reasoning or simply just copies of WT arguments.
The apologies for UN, false prophecy, pedophile are quite easy to refute. there is no substance.
However, why i believe we should not ignore him/her:
This board is pretty contra JW. We have hardly those who defend WT positions, mostly because it is a lost cause anyway. Still I think all arguements and discussion gain greater value, if somebody tries to counterargue. Lurkers and others are able to see both sides, and make an informed decision for themselves. A truth stands out more, when arguments to bring it down are successfully refuted.
Time and again, when reading certain threads, I think, ok this sounds right, but it may be onesided. When now apologists come, like scholar, debator etc, and try to proove the opposite, then I often see, how well founded the proof and facts are.
And one thing we might not wnat to forget: behind debator/reniaa, scholar or whoever is a real person, able to reason and to decide, whether truth or loyalty to a so called Gods org is more valuable to them. And remember, most of us wefe apologists before, something made us change, maybe it works for them too....
just my thoughts
I probably did not express myself properly above, I am not advocating getting rid of Debator, it was the stupid, ignorant and downright dishonest methods use by similar apologists that helped to open my eyes.
I was just hoping to single out some of the stuff that JW's active or not may agree with, so that we can address those, even perhaps agree with ?
As Inbetween says above most of the stuff is easy to see through, and it has already been refuted on other threads, but maybe some of it needs looking at closer, of course if everybody sees the paucity of his/her arguments we do not need to expend much effort on them.
We need JW apologists on here, but I do wish we had some of quality who would be honest in debate.
It really makes no difference if a new JW apologist is a resurected poster from wayback or not.
Just deal with the issues the person brings up.
My family's tactics bear a very close resemblance to all of the Ren/Deb/Alice/Mad posters, the only really noticeable difference is that they wouldn't be seen dead on anything that might even slightly resemble an Apostate forum.
Don't be distracted by the resemblance. It is not an issue. If it is............ try explaining why in language that the Pope or an Athiest would understand, then I might 'get it'.
Just deal with the issue. Character assassination is the domain of cults. We should be priding ourselves in our freedom from cultic tactics.
Cheers
Chris
I doubt that believing JW's would be posting here in the first place. Considering how the WT has warned them not check out sites like thses.
Bangalore
cameo_d check your pm
Are you saying that Renaii has resurrected as debator now???
Yep. 'Reniaa' lay in the street for 1,260 seconds, then she created a new user ID as "debator" and has continued her silliness ever since. So much for her last post as "Reniaa" that claimed she was leaving here and going back to the Kingdumb Hell.
"...I am leaving for personal reasons outside of JWN this time so it will be for good. I have finally made a full commitment to going back to the witnesses. And this site and being a witness don't really work, It is for people that are leaving but not for people that are going back..."
Something tells me that her 'full commitment to going back to the witnesses' has fallen short and she much prefers to spend her time on JWN. Wow! What would Jesus say about that!!
With that in mind, I truly don't feel that 'Debator' contributes much of anything on here. And in true Witness fashion, if she cannot back up her claims, she either ignores your request for 'evidence' or tries switching the subject at hand.
Umm, not at all. She is ridiculous.
Being fair though, she does contribute to this forum. As far as all the JW apologists go, she's the only one who actually will debate the issues. She's not mental like MadJW, or immature like Bane, or full of fecal matter like DJEggNogg, or schizophrenic like Alice/Confearacy. She debates the issues, and through her posts, and the responses by others it does a tremendous service for lurkers and posters like myself. Me personally, I'm still formulating my positions on certain matters. What I appreciate about this forum is the collage experiences, opinions, research and thoughts. If it were all antiJW, of what good would this forum be other than to get things off our chests?
