Why dont Jehovah Witness pioneers and baptized publishers like the title 'Ordained Minister?'

by Joliette 9 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Joliette
    Joliette

    I watched a video on this, and an independent filmmaker was asking a brother why dont Jehovah's Witnesses publishers and pioneers consider themselves to be ordanined ministers. He went to a scripture and then said that the reason why we do this work, is to help our neighboors learn about the bible and live there lives according to it. He seemed to distance himself from the title 'ordained minister.'Some actually said they were ministers and some did not. Some seemed very confused.

    Why dont the rank and file dubs know if they are ministers or not?

  • Ding
    Ding

    They are confused because the WTS has flip-flopped several times on the "ordained ministers" issue.

    I don't have the publications on this, so I'm going by memory.

    Perhaps others on the board will be able to quote the various positions exactly.

    The WTS didn't like the term because it sounded too much like Christendom, but when it was advantageous for JWs to be "ordained ministers" for government purposes (military draft issue, etc.) they said all active publishers were ordained ministers.

    At one point they said "ordination" occurred at baptism rather than just active publishing, I think.

  • leavingwt
    leavingwt

    Cognitive dissonance is an uncomfortable feeling caused by holding conflicting ideas simultaneously.

    Idea #1: I was told at my baptism talk that I would be an ordained minister, once baptized.

    Idea #2: I really don't know _____ about the Bible or Religion.

  • dssynergy
    dssynergy

    hmmm....as I remember it - you are ordained when you are baptized, and they tell you that. I think they flip flop on it too - claiming ecclesiastical privilege around judicial matters - but not informing elders they are mandatory reporters for issues like child abuse or elder abuse. To my mind, depending on the state you live in - if you are ordained you are a mandatory reporter, and we all have the responsiblity for that.

    I am not sure why the WTBS doesn't recognize that and it might not be true in all states in the US - but it should be and it seems like it should be more clear cut than it is and that everyone in the congregation should have a clear understanding of how it works in their particular area.

    DS

  • Joliette
    Joliette

    @ Ding:

    Their ordained ministrers when it comes to that tax exemption!...and the kingdom hall becomes a chruch also.

  • darth frosty
    darth frosty

    Because its a mis-leading title, like saying they're christians.

    Frosty with the triple!

  • fresia
    fresia

    JW are not ordained ministers according to the world, they are ministers of Christ and the bible by the WTBTS, so they are ordained by the WTBTS, which means jack shit.

  • blondie
    blondie

    *** w70 5/15 p. 310 par. 23 Your Conscience Toward Jehovah ***

    Each individual should carefully note and observe the date of the baptism. The event is the result of obedience to God’s commands through his Word relative to the matter and so the time of baptism may be taken as the time of Christian ordination and be recorded and verified as occasions in the future may require. It is so recognized by the congregation of Jehovah’s witnesses and by the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society. So for the purpose of record, baptism by Jehovah’s witnesses is a valid ceremony of ordination for Jehovah’s witnesses within the meaning of the law of the land. Proof that one can have that one is thereafter a faithful minister includes that to which the apostle Paul pointed as his own letters of recommendation, namely, individuals who, due to a disciple’s efforts, have in turn dedicated themselves to Jehovah God, having been made disciples.—2 Cor. 3:1-3.

    *** w81 3/15 pp. 15-16 Who Are God’s Ministers? ***

    As with all religious organizations, Jehovah’s Witnesses have the privilege and right to determine when their students have reached the point where they qualify to be ministers of God’s Word, "servants" in an elevated, godly sense. After an appropriate personal training period they are examined by the duly appointed elders in their congregation. If students can give evidence of having an adequate knowledge of God’s Word, a heart appreciation of its message, and have unreservedly dedicated themselves to Jehovah to do his will and to follow in the footsteps of Jesus Christ, and if they have brought their lives in line with God’s requirements and principles, they are admitted to baptism and are thereby ordained as ministers. There is sound Scriptural precedent for this procedure, for it was only after Jesus had presented himself for baptism that he began his career as God’s anointed minister, preaching the good news of God’s kingdom.—Mark 1:9-15.

    *** w84 8/15 p. 14 par. 16 Must All True Christians Be Ministers? ***But you may ask, Were those early Christians also ministers even if they had full-time secular work or were housewives? Yes, they were. Maybe they could spend only a small fraction of their time in the Christian ministry, preaching and teaching, but that was their prime purpose in life. They knew they had to ‘let their light shine’ as true disciples of Christ. In effect they were worker-ministers long before Christendom had its worker-priest movement.—Matthew 5:16; 1 Peter 2:9.

    Proof

    *** w00 11/15 p. 17 Who Are God’s Ministers Today? ***

    As to when and by whom a person is ordained, consider the example of Jesus Christ. He did not have a certificate of ordination or a degree from some seminary to prove that he was a minister, and he was not ordained by any man. Why can we say, then, that he was a minister? Because Isaiah’s inspired words were fulfilled in him: "Jehovah’s spirit is upon me, because he anointed me to declare good news." (Luke 4:17-19; Isaiah 61:1) Those words leave no doubt that Jesus was commissioned to tell forth good news. By whom? Since Jehovah’s spirit anointed him for the work, Jesus was clearly ordained by Jehovah God. When did this happen? Jehovah’s spirit actually came upon Jesus when he was baptized. (Luke 3:21, 22) Therefore, it was at his baptism that he was ordained.

    The apostle Paul explained it this way: "Are we starting again to recommend ourselves? Or do we, perhaps, like some men, need letters of recommendation to you or from you? You yourselves are our letter, inscribed on our hearts and known and being read by all mankind. For you are shown to be a letter of Christ written by us as ministers, inscribed not with ink but with spirit of a living God, not on stone tablets, but on fleshly tablets, on hearts." How was that writing on hearts accomplished? By the preaching of the seedlike word of faith that became implanted in the heart. In turn this seed motivated the receiver also to preach the same message of salvation to others.—2 Corinthians 3:1-3. How do Jehovah’s Witnesses prove that they are ministers if they have no diploma or university degree? Well, how did the early Christians establish that they were ministers? Christ himself provided this insight: "Every good tree produces fine fruit." Christian ministers should produce "fine fruit," which includes sharing in the disciple-making work.—Matthew 7:17. ofTheir

    Ministry

  • Mad Dawg
    Mad Dawg

    Do Dubs receive any documentation that they are ordained? Can any baptized Dub perform a marriage?

  • blondie
    blondie

    *** w06 4/1 p. 24 par. 11 ‘Go and Make Disciples, Baptizing Them’ ***The second question asks the candidate, first of all, if he understands that his baptism serves to identify him as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. After undergoing immersion, he becomes an ordained minister who bears Jehovah’s name. This is both a great privilege and a serious responsibility. It also puts the one baptized in line for eternal salvation, provided he remains faithful to Jehovah.—Matthew 24:13.

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    Since this was said in 2006, I don't know why the quibbling about the term....upon baptism every jw becomes an ordained minister.

    As to documents: on Page 220 of the Lamp book given to new jws: (This was during the Vietnam years and the draft when young male jws had to legally cross all the T's for the draft boards)

    RECORD OF CHRISTIAN BAPTISM

    ...In accord with the example and commandment of our Lord Jesus Christ, on [Date] at [Place] I was baptized in water...I am now an ordained minister of Jehovah God...

    (Personal signature)

    (Congregation overseer)

    (Name of congregation)

    (Date)

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