by sabastious 26 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
I can personally attest to this happening to a relative of mine when they were a toddler. Toddler needed a transfusion, JW parents said no, doctor got a court order real quick. Kid got the transfusion and lived.
As for statistics, who knows?
JWs in the US generally seek out medical attention for their kids so it's slightly different from Christian Science where the child dies at home because the parents are sitting around praying for a miracle.
om
Cameo, that's all well and good, but then why can't I hide behind my sovereign church if I want to murder?
-Sab
Good question. Perhaps it is because Rome is the ultimate authority whether it is religion or political issues at stake. Consider this....when people take an oath on the bible....who is the "God" they are swearing to?
Who is considered the "local representative of God"?
In the broadest sense, a vicar (pronounced /'v?k?r/ ; from the Latinvicarius) is a representative, anyone acting "in the person of" or agent for a superior (compare "vicarious" in the sense of "at second hand").
Fact is, Sab, you probably could hide behind your sovereign church in such a situation if your sovereign church is guilty of the same thing. Perhaps that's why it happens.
The problem I would like to see highlighted is that in some cases the child is allowed to commit suicide by the Judge because he/she is old enough and mentally capable enough to make the decision.
The capability may be there, but as we know, no Jehovah's Witness, young or old, is allowed to look at the issue from all points of view.
Nobody is capable of making a proper decision if they are not in full possession of all the facts, I think sometimes the courts get fooled by the Witness lies that their adherents are "informed".
In a rational society and sane society, children have basic human rights. Of course.
In the Watchtower society children have no rights. There are mountains of proof from Watchtower writings that this is true.
It therefore follows that the Watchtower society not rational. Or sane.
Conclusion? The Watchtower society is insane.
Farkel
This happens often?
Yes. The physician/hospital contact the authorities and they get a court order. Happens all the time.
Yes. The physician/hospital contact the authorities and they get a court order. Happens all the time.
So there are many state laws that protect the child in an event where the parents will choose suicide for their children?
-Sab
"I think sometimes the courts get fooled by the Witness lies that their adherents are "informed".
I agree with Wobble. There was a case last year in Canada where a teen sued because she was forced a blood transfusion. The province had to pay her $450,000 court fees, and ruled that her rights weren't violated. But they said that lower courts from now on need to consider the maturity and decision-making skills of minors before they force medical treatment on them. http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2009/06/26/supreme-blood026.html
I feel this is so wrong. I was taught at a young age from the platform how to refuse a blood transfusion, and what to say if I needed to argue my viewpoint in court. The same reasoning I was taught was used by the teen in the above case: "I don't want to die, which is why I went to the hospital for treatment. I just wanted the best medical treatment without blood." I was taught that same line, word for word, 15 years ago. The witnesses can fool the court, making them believe they know what their choice means. But it took me 28 years to realize that the WT is not God's organization. Obviously my thinking ablitliy and decision-making skills weren't functioning properly until I woke up and realized I'd been sadly mislead my entire life. I would have fought to avoid a blood transfusion without fully understanding why, or how the scripture I would quote was taken out of context.
I have been watching a series, God in America, which just started. It is showing why freedom of religion is so important in the US, how it developed over the last 400 years.
The US tries to balance the rights of the child with religious freedom. jws are not the only religion that has beliefs that puts their members at risk, Christian Scientists are one example, and some independent groups.
http://www.pbs.org/godinamerica/
Here's a discussion about the difficulties.
Blondie
"The US tries to balance the rights of the child with religious freedom."
Child: I wish to be allowed to throw myself off the cliff
Judge: Why would you do something like that.
Child: Because God will catch me. And if not, then I will gain eternal life.
Judge: Really. How have you come to that conclusion?
Child: I have examined it very closely. I believe that is what I should do according to my conscience.
Judge: Is it the magazines your father and mother brings home from their church?
Child: Yes. But I have checked everything very thouroughly. It i because I want to do this, not because I am told. I truly wish, to throw myself off a cliff. It is a conclusion I have come to all by myself. I have not been pressed to do anything I do not wish to do.
Judge: Yes. You seem like a clever kid and will most certainly not berob you of your godgiven right. You go throw yourself off that cliff and I forbid any meanspirited persons to try and stop you.
Child: Thank you judge. I like you very much.
(The child turns to look at its parents and smile to them. When looking at them it is clear they are very proud of their dear child for standing up for their faith.)
Sabastious:
Hopefully, more folks can tell their personal stories. Here is mine.
A couple in nearby congregation, that I personally knew when I was a JW, had their daughter's medical decisions taken over by DHS, upon the order of a judge from Louisiana. Essentially, the parents kept the child and raised her, but all of her medical decisions were being made by DHS. Why? Because the parents refused to consent to blood treatment when the child was very tiny. (Beyond this, my memory is sketchy. I'll ask my brother if he recalls any more details.)
